[Billthegravedigger]

And why exactly didn't buildings (excuse me if I'm wrong here) 3,4,5 and 6 didn't collapse with WAY more damage.

Well, considering the fact that they were 9 stories at most, that gives you a clue right there. All of the buildings that collapsed that day were HIGHRISES. The other WTC complex buildings were not near as tall as the others. Even the Marriot Hotel which was 22 stories tall was collapsing from damage done from the South Tower collapse.

It did not have a chance to collapse completely from gravity alone, because the North Tower came down a crushed it even more. WTC # 7 however, burnt unchecked from the time that the North Tower came down until around 5:27 pm. That is a long time to burn unchecked for any building, let alone one that is 47 stories tall, and has SEVERE structural damage.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by .408Cheytac ↗

Gravedigger,

When you dig my grave,

Can you make it shallow,

so that I can feel the rain

As long as it's not anytime soon Chey, you are too good a person to check out anytime soon.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

No Bill...building 7. Rewatch the video starting at07 secs. There are distinguishable "pops" of smoke coming out of the right side of the building BEFORE the floors have collapsed upon themselves.

http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/

Those pops are not explosions man. Those are the windows popping out as the building falls. Ever had to replace a window in your house ? If you don't square it up perfectly when you replace it, it will pop and you have to have yet another window to replace. Yes, you guessed it, shitty diagram time.

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

Those pops are not explosions man. Those are the windows popping out as the building falls. Ever had to replace a window in your house ? If you don't square it up perfectly when you replace it, it will pop and you have to have yet another window to replace. Yes, you guessed it, shitty diagram time.

Damn Bill, you have a diagram for eveything. Gotta give you that!

You guys make some good points, interesting points, just still have my doubts and questions. Hell, I haven't really visited this subject for a while till I came across cheytacs initial post.

Take care man and again I apologize for us gettin off on the wrong foot.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

Damn Bill, you have a diagram for eveything. Gotta give you that!

You guys make some good points, interesting points, just still have my doubts and questions. Hell, I haven't really visited this subject for a while till I came across cheytacs initial post.

Take care man and again I apologize for us gettin off on the wrong foot.

It's all good man. Shit happens. I can come across as an asshole at times, the bad part is I don't even try.

I do not have answers for everything, but I keep checking things, and try to explore all possible angles. I have to tell, seeing those people jump to a certain death to keep from burning has made a lasting impact on me, one that will stay with me til I'm dead myself.

I get tore up about because some people actually think they were special effects dummies filled with red food coloring. I assure you they were not. Those people twisted, and turned and tried to fight against gravity to no avail. When they hit, they were completely destroyed.

You could tell they had second thoughts, but by then it was too late. They were all horrible, but that poor woman that was pregnant, that's the one that fucks with me the most. She was trying against all odds in the North Tower to survive, but the heat and smoke became too much.

I looked out the windows of the North Tower at the Tobin plaza, and it looked like a war zone already. You could hear them hitting even when you could not see them. They would impact and not only could you hear it, but you could feel it as well. My dear friend John disagrees with me on this point, but it is the truth..........they sounded like explosions. He took it to mean C-4, RDX, or something like that.

I tried to explain to him there are different classifacations of explosives, but he would not hear of it. Have you ever shaken a full can of spraypaint, removed the plastic nozzle, and tossed it into a fire ? When the jumpers hit, they were louder than a spraypaint can exploding in a fire.

He still wont comment, answer me in any form on this matter anymore. That is his problem though, I let him think what he wants too. I have to say, I don't really consider you close minded, you are still here, still conversing with us, and taking the time to answer us. A closeminded person would not do that. I honestly do not try to change people's opinions on this matter, I just try to show that there is a logical explanation for the towers, pentagon and United 93. But our goverment did not stop it, and that is a fact, a fact that cost almost 3,000 their lives, and a fact many more have to live with.

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

It's all good man. Shit happens. I can come across as an asshole at times, the bad part is I don't even try.

I do not have answers for everything, but I keep checking things, and try to explore all possible angles. I have to tell, seeing those people jump to a certain death to keep from burning has made a lasting impact on me, one that will stay with me til I'm dead myself.

I get tore up about because some people actually think they were special effects dummies filled with red food coloring. I assure you they were not. Those people twisted, and turned and tried to fight against gravity to no avail. When they hit, they were completely destroyed.

You could tell they had second thoughts, but by then it was too late. They were all horrible, but that poor woman that was pregnant, that's the one that fucks with me the most. She was trying against all odds in the North Tower to survive, but the heat and smoke became too much.

I looked out the windows of the North Tower at the Tobin plaza, and it looked like a war zone already. You could hear them hitting even when you could not see them. They would impact and not only could you hear it, but you could feel it as well. My dear friend John disagrees with me on this point, but it is the truth..........they sounded like explosions. He took it to mean C-4, RDX, or something like that.

I tried to explain to him there are different classifacations of explosives, but he would not hear of it. Have you ever shaken a full can of spraypaint, removed the plastic nozzle, and tossed it into a fire ? When the jumpers hit, they were louder than a spraypaint can exploding in a fire.

He still wont comment, answer me in any form on this matter anymore. That is his problem though, I let him think what he wants too. I have to say, I don't really consider you close minded, you are still here, still conversing with us, and taking the time to answer us. A closeminded person would not do that. I honestly do not try to change people's opinions on this matter, I just try to show that there is a logical explanation for the towers, pentagon and United 93. But our goverment did not stop it, and that is a fact, a fact that cost almost 3,000 their lives, and a fact many more have to live with.

I hear ya Bill...again sorry for the things you experienced. I know for a fact those were real people and I think someone here posted a photo of a skydiver who's chute didn't open. Not a pretty sight.

[Billthegravedigger]

The skydiver at top.

Pieces from jumpers are second.

The third one is were a part of a jumper landed after clipping another building and exploding.

The fourth is the skin from somebody that was killed in the collapse, and the skin was expelled from the tower, about 3.5 pounds worth.

The bottom one is from the Tammi Michaels film she and her husband recorded from the Millenium Hotel. I tried to play around and adjust things on it, so that is why it looks so weird. Anytime I mess with a picture, I make sure I tell everyone.

[ebneter]

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

Sorry Robot, you tried, I watched, but still don't buy it.
Especially, when, I hear "firefighters let it burn because they knew it was going to collapse (seems like all the talking heads knew all three buildings were going to collapse, except those of us watching) anyway" (what other building in the world has ever collapsed from fire, show me proof"), and the end "debunking one 9-11 conspiracy at a time".

Well, I certainly knew building 1 was doomed after building 2 came down...

what other building in the world has ever collapsed from fire, show me proof -- steel-framed buildings collapse all the freaking time from fire alone. Why do you think high-rise buildings are built to such incredibly strict fire codes? It's because a 2-3 story building collapsing is bad, but a 40+ story building collapsing is catastrophic, as 9/11 clearly demonstrated.

And why exactly didn't buildings (excuse me if I'm wrong here) 3,4,5 and 6 didn't collapse with WAY more damage.

No fire. And there were grave concerns about several of them; all were of course demo'd very, very carefully. Remember, building 7 wasn't just severely damaged by the collapse of building 1, it was also set afire.

Plus, that was Giulliani's emergency bunker for just such an event. Why was he located elsewhere that day and not where he belonged?

Because it was too close to the scene and therefore in danger. As it proved out!

[BBKF]

Bill...in the blood/fat/gore pic..isn't it sooo freaky that the pen is okay? Everytime I look at that picture(the pic I truly think is the closest to what was left of the jumpers)I see that pen and it bothers me. It is so normal in such an abnormal situation.

[robot]

You don't have to believe me. I know that street, I know what 1 did to 7. Sept 11 was the first of a weeks worth of days off for me. I worked at the courthouse. I awoke hearing the first explosion and thought it sounded like someone dropped an 18 wheeler in to a hole - sounded like a truck axle braking - BANGGWHAAAAWHAAAWHAAAA ..... Then my phone wouldn't stop ringing. And you all know about the rest of the day. It's not about believers and truthers - if you were from this City, worked downtown and knew the people I know (no one special but people who were there). You'd STFU - don't get all polite and lecture me on manners ... blah, blah, blah "you sir should agree to disagree .... baaaa-elch!!!"

Vessey street is a narrow street. 7 is next to the post office - I know the street. 1 caused 7 to come down. Believe it or not.

Truthers and believers ... Get yanked. I'm a progressive voter who votes their conscious not a party. I disagree with many of the shortsighted policies this country has in regards to foreign relations, hegemony and oftentimes just outright hubris. Yadda, yadda, yadda ... what-ev-er-dude.

Doesn't change the fact that 2 planes hit the towers, ultimately causing their demise and a massive amount of iron rained down on building seven and against it. As a result, this ultimately caused it to become unstable and collapse. The fires didn't help any.

P.S. Everyone knows a plane hit the Pentagon too.

.... Care the least what you think. Dolt.

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

Last message...not close minded. I simply asked questions, if you answer me and I believe you then you have changed my mind, if not,then I continue on my path.
You my friend, seem to want to force your opinion on other people, and if they simply won't agree with you, you resort to vitriol by calling them "idiots" and "close minded".
I recall, simply saying to you, we agree to disagree, and wished the best to you...but seeing as how I didn't agree with you, you resort to calling me "close minded".
It's funny how conversations and debates between believers and truthers always have to devolve into insults and name calling from the believers.
Again...for the LAST time...the best to you.