[Zambini]

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

No Bill...building 7. Rewatch the video starting at07 secs. There are distinguishable "pops" of smoke coming out of the right side of the building BEFORE the floors have collapsed upon themselves.

http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/

I think that is the glass popping out, turning to dust instantly due to the compression load.

Bill, on the pentagon, I can see the cribbing and the angled wall braces they used to try and shore it up, never noticed that before.

[robot]

Were you in NYC on that day? As you watched things unfold on tv, were you calling friends to see if others were out of the building or whether so and so still worked at the trade center? There was no demolition numb nuts. As big as this city is, it's actually a small big town - I had friends both in finance, the fire dept and the court houses (little known heroic fact that some of the court officers from the state courthouse also lost their lives trying to help during the attack). You can't deny the pictures and local footage of WTC that shows the building on fire and hit by WTC 1 - you can't. But you obviously dwell on the "conspiracy" favored footage of the building from north. You or maybe not you (others) show footage where fire fighters here things singularly go "boom". Cars were on fire you know and bits of building were falling all the time from the buildings impacted. PLANES brought down those buildings, along with their collateral damage.

Originally Posted by pbraasch ↗

No Bill...building 7. Rewatch the video starting at07 secs. There are distinguishable "pops" of smoke coming out of the right side of the building BEFORE the floors have collapsed upon themselves.

http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by robot ↗

Were you in NYC on that day? As you watched things unfold on tv, were you calling friends to see if others were out of the building or whether so and so still worked at the trade center? There was no demolition numb nuts. As big as this city is, it's actually a small big town - I had friends both in finance, the fire dept and the court houses (little known heroic fact that some of the court officers from the state courthouse also lost their lives trying to help during the attack). You can't deny the pictures and local footage of WTC that shows the building on fire and hit by WTC 1 - you can't. But you obviously dwell on the "conspiracy" favored footage of the building from north. You or maybe not you (others) show footage where fire fighters here things singularly go "boom". Cars were on fire you know and bits of building were falling all the time from the buildings impacted. PLANES brought down those buildings, along with their collateral damage.

Robot, look, first off I want to give my sympathies to you and Bill for your losses and the things you both experienced. I might be an ass sometimes, but I'm not a hard ass.
There is no denying the towers were hit by planes and collapsed. There are some out there who claim the planes were holograms, but not even I choose to go in that territory.
Planes hit, buildings came down, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what the towers were made of.
All of us differ on a few points, which, I'm afraid neither side is going to convince the other of.
I simply refuse to believe building 7 came down due to collateral damage. No one is ever going to convice me of that. As well as the Pentagon. No plane ever hit that building. NOT ONE SINGLE PICTURE WAS TAKEN OF THE PLANE APPROACHING AND HITTING THE BUILDING! Almost every single person, young and old, has a camera handy today, and take pictures of all kinds of rediculous shit. I'm just never gonna buy this one, even for a second.
Third and last, yes, I may get ridiculed for saying this, but I will because it is my belief. I firmly believe Al-Qaeda was a group setup and trained by the CIA.
You and Bill believe the government knew and didn't stop it. I believe the government concocted it. I just can't accept the fact that our government is some little creampuff, incapable of committing treacherous acts against it's own people for gain and profit. God knows it has happened to other countries around the world. What makes it impossible here. Because we're "more civilized here"? Sorry, don't buy it.
Just the way it is. This post, I guess, is addressed to both you and Bill. Bill, I apologize to you for going off on you. I think you did deserve some of it, as did I.
I wish you both the best.

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

Look man, you seem to have calmed down somewhat, and that is good. Thank you for that. Now let me ask you a question. Have you ever worked in a coal mine, or a saw mill ? IF you have worked at either, you know what cribbing block is.

If not, I'll explain a little. They use either cribbing blocks, or timbers to support the roof of the coal mine from caveing in. The blocks of wood vary in size as you can image, and are rather heavy.

I can guess you are wondering what the fuck does this have to do with the pentagon. A lot actually.
The wings did make a hole, but only so far into the building. It damaged the outer wall, and went in a few yards before being destroyed. The wall above were the wings hit were starting to sag from the weight, so the supported them with cribbing blocks.

That is why it looks like the hole is smaller than it really is. I made a shitty diagram, and I will add some pictures as well. I outlined the blocks in red in one picture, and left the other picture alone so you can see it better.

Bill, I made another post to Robot that applied to you too. Read that first, then read this. I have looked over your post 10 if not 20 times, and read what you wrote. Please, read this in it's entirety and let's see your thoughts.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...os&FORM=IDFRIR

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by robot ↗

Why don't you visit the site and SEE how much debris came down from WTC 1 and not only hit WTC 7 but was pushing against the NORTH SIDE OF WTC 7'S FOUNDATION - you should walk the site and side street. Here's another really good video that only partially shows you how much damage was done to WTC 7

There was NO demolition. The video only showing the collapse from the north side is an easy packaged way to say "gee, look how it fell so effortlessly - it must be a controlled demolition."

No, the building and the site was a MESS for hours after WTC 1&2 collapsed ... WTC 7 was a mess for hours - HOURS, man. Do you get it yet? Where and how was there a demo? How was there a demo, if the south side and all it's damage was filmed as well?

At 0:57 watch the north tower debris "hit" the south side of the building AND image what that pile looks like at the foot of WTC 7 - it's not bubble wrap, it's a pile of steel pushing against the bottom of the building. Look at the hit the building too at 1:00 - that's from the eastside of the city/the city hall side or rather the church street side. 1:00 to like 1:09 will show you the "south east" side of WTC 7 and what all that debris did to some of WTC 7 but to me seals the deal that the structure was unstable.

The building collapsed south east leaning. Some of the debris MOST CERTAINLY hit the penthouse on top, comprising the building even more before it's final collapse - THE EAST PENTHOUSE COLLAPSES FIRST AND THE SOUTH EAST SIDE IS HEAVILY DAMAGED. Why did the penthouse collapse .... you saw the tower collapsing in the video above, you tell me?

Sorry Robot, you tried, I watched, but still don't buy it.
Especially, when, I hear "firefighters let it burn because they knew it was going to collapse (seems like all the talking heads knew all three buildings were going to collapse, except those of us watching) anyway" (what other building in the world has ever collapsed from fire, show me proof"), and the end "debunking one 9-11 conspiracy at a time".

And why exactly didn't buildings (excuse me if I'm wrong here) 3,4,5 and 6 didn't collapse with WAY more damage.

Plus, that was Giulliani's emergency bunker for just such an event. Why was he located elsewhere that day and not where he belonged?

[robot]

You just watched WTC 1 practically FALL on to WTC 7 and saw where the southeast side of the building 10 floors down to its foundation HAS A HOLE IN IT and also the east side of the penthouse COLLAPSE from IRON AND STELL debris falling on it from above .... And you can't believe that after 6 hours like that ... sitting amidst a complex honey combed with underground structures - malls, transit, etc. that the building wouldn't fall over in a southeast direction. You're an idiot. And I've seen the fake cruise missile vid before/debunked. A plane hit the pentagon http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...myths-pentagon

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by robot ↗

You just watched WTC 1 practically FALL on to WTC 7 and saw where the southeast side of the building 10 floors down to its foundation HAS A HOLE IN IT and also the east side of the penthouse COLLAPSE from IRON AND STELL debris falling on it from above .... And you can't believe that after 6 hours like that ... sitting amidst a complex honey combed with underground structures - malls, transit, etc. that the building wouldn't fall over in a southeast direction. You're an idiot. And I've seen the fake cruise missile vid before/debunked. A plane hit the pentagon http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...myths-pentagon

Ok...then we have nothing further to discuss. The best to you.

[robot]

QUOTED TEXT - Pentagon Truth

9/11 activists debunk Rumsfeld's "missile" hoax

US War Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was the first person to imply that a "missile" hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

Some "truth" activists were fooled by this claim (it was a very sophisticated hoax) but eventually retracted their support for this false claim, while others never believed it at all. Some sincere people still believe it, although every argument for all of the various "no plane" claims have been debunked by a wide variety of sources. It can be hard to admit having made a mistake, especially if one has staked their credibility on something that is not true.

This page ("Pentagon Truth") lists a few of the best writers, investigators and activists in the 9/11 truth movement who show how this was just a hoax to distract and discredit the skeptics. Not all of them agree with each other, but these public statements show that they understand the claim that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon is not real.
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-truth.html

You're right, we have nothing further to discuss - close minded one.

[.408Cheytac]

Gravedigger,

When you dig my grave,

Can you make it shallow,

so that I can feel the rain

[pbraasch]

Originally Posted by robot ↗

QUOTED TEXT - Pentagon Truth

9/11 activists debunk Rumsfeld's "missile" hoax

US War Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was the first person to imply that a "missile" hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

Some "truth" activists were fooled by this claim (it was a very sophisticated hoax) but eventually retracted their support for this false claim, while others never believed it at all. Some sincere people still believe it, although every argument for all of the various "no plane" claims have been debunked by a wide variety of sources. It can be hard to admit having made a mistake, especially if one has staked their credibility on something that is not true.

This page ("Pentagon Truth") lists a few of the best writers, investigators and activists in the 9/11 truth movement who show how this was just a hoax to distract and discredit the skeptics. Not all of them agree with each other, but these public statements show that they understand the claim that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon is not real.
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-truth.html

You're right, we have nothing further to discuss - close minded one.

Last message...not close minded. I simply asked questions, if you answer me and I believe you then you have changed my mind, if not,then I continue on my path.
You my friend, seem to want to force your opinion on other people, and if they simply won't agree with you, you resort to vitriol by calling them "idiots" and "close minded".
I recall, simply saying to you, we agree to disagree, and wished the best to you...but seeing as how I didn't agree with you, you resort to calling me "close minded".
It's funny how conversations and debates between believers and truthers always have to devolve into insults and name calling from the believers.
Again...for the LAST time...the best to you.