Chauvin Trial

[Pyramid_Head]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma

A verdict has been reached and will be read within the next hour or so. New thread regarding the verdict here: https://www.documentingreality.com/f...-00-et-222539/

Guilty on all 3 counts.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Natie

I mean that's all fine and well but this whole trial and every charge he is facing isn't on the grounds of intent. What he intended to do isn't on trial, what he did do is.

You can't in any possible way defend kneeling on someone who is unconscious. Kneeling on their back, legs, neck, elbow...any part of their body. If you are in police custody for any reason they are liable for your safety regardless of if you deserve it or not. Regardless of if the medical emergency is drug related, injury related, self-inflicted or cop related.

Forget the first 15 minutes of the tape. The moment that Floyd became unresponsive and those cops did nothing for him even though they are trained and obligated to, is the moment that will 100% get them convicted.

I disagree. What got him 100% convicted was pressure, fear, repercussions, intimidation. The jury I guarantee was terrified to do anything but convict.

This trial should have been moved away from Minneapolis. If this isn't a candidate for change of venue I don't know what case would be. It also should have had the jury sequestered, again, if this case isn't a candidate for that, I don't know what is.

You have powerful politicians, even the freaking president stating that he should be found guilty before the jury was deliberating. Some journalists have searched through records and media reports to see if a president has ever commented on a cases outcome before the verdict. And this is the first time in American history it's happened.

Just think if you're a juror, and the president of the United States says you should find him guilty. Other politicians are promising/ threatening violence if you don't find him guilty. You watch the news and see them talking about whether the jury is racist, knowing your name will be released after the verdict.

I am certain if a few jurors refused to convict, their homes would be burnt to the ground. Their safety would be in jeopardy.

Regardless of how anyone feels. That's not justice, that's not how our system is supposed to be. A juror shouldn't have any fear at all about their decision.

And the fact he was on drugs, and enough to kill a person. Had a very serious health problem on top of it. The fact he was resisting, saying he can't breathe from the beginning. He might of even said he took too many drugs. Is more than enough for reasonable doubt about what killed him. It's entirely possible Floyd dies no matter what the police did.

I think he may have been guilty of the manslaughter charge. But the other charges are ridiculous. And the threat of the city being burned to the ground made it a trial about appeasing the mob. There was no trial. It was all a show.

And I'm sure this verdict will be thrown out, and he'll be retried. Nobody should be happy about this situation, this outcome. People should be extremely worried this is the way our system will work from now on. Mobs will threaten, the media will fan the flames, and the jurors will be terrified.

And you're wrong. The 3rd degree murder charge is all about intent. To be guilty of that charge the jury said he intended to kill Floyd. That he knew Floyd could die.

[dankboosh]

Biden only commented after the jury was sequestered.

You and Soja should go out for milkshakes and talk all night.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by dankboosh

Biden only commented after the jury was sequestered.

You and Soja should go out for milkshakes and talk all night.

What's your point? He commented on a trial and the outcome he wanted before the verdict was reached. He's the first president in the entirety of American history to do so.

And whoever I go and talk with, I can guarantee whatever I have to say won't be hypocrisy, it won't be complete garbage, like what comes from you.

You see my opinion would be the exact same no matter who said what. You on the other hand, everything depends on who said what, or who did what. Because everyone who's not a head up their ass leftist knows with any doubt, if Trump said something about what the outcome should be at the exact same time Biden did during his presidency. The media, and you would have lost your minds. They would say exactly what I said, that this is unprecedented, that it's wrong and a violation of the constitution.

It doesn't matter when he says it. If the trial is not over, it's wrong. He doesn't know if it will be declared a mistrial and another trial will have to be held, or a deadlocked jury and another trial must be held.

And as if it mattered at that point, since the lefts media, and other leftist politicians haven't already commented a million times already.

It's sad a pathetic, America is falling apart since Trump became president. Trump is responsible, the media is most responsible, and now Biden has accelerated it.

[dankboosh]

No, I wouldn't say that if Trump had done the same thing.

Because Biden said it when the jury was already sequestered, meaning they didn't hear it before they rendered their verdict. So it had zero impact on their decision, which you are implying it is.

I know common sense is tough for you.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by niknik

I disagree. What got him 100% convicted was pressure, fear, repercussions, intimidation. The jury I guarantee was terrified to do anything but convict.

I have to disagree with you and my reasoning is exactly what I posted in the verdict thread here: https://www.documentingreality.com/f...9/#post6981396.

Edit: I've cut and paste my post from that thread here for everyone's convenience. lol

Regardless of Floyd's negative history... and regardless of anyone's inability to see the situation for what is truly was in it's TOTALITY... Chauvin still played a role in the death of another human being.

Chauvin is also a piece of shit waste of space based on HIS history... this is NOT the first case of Chauvin pinning someone down with a knee making them lose consciousness. He previously did so with a 14 year old boy in September 2017. But neither you nor the jury heard about HIS history in court... and he was still convicted. If it wasn't George Floyd, you can bet your ass it would have been somebody, at some point.

I had similar thoughts of the jury possibly only convicting him to appease the various different groups... but the prosecution proved their case repeatedly throughout the trial. Defense seemed to be desperately reaching at straws most of the time. The fact they convicted him of ALL three counts and not just one, which honestly shocked me... says the jury believed him to be 100% guilty and wanted justice to be served. Period.

As I've said before, Floyd already paid the price for his role in his own death. It's time for Chauvin to to do the same.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_...vasion_charges

Misconduct complaints
Chauvin had 18 complaints on his official record, two of which ended in discipline, including official letters of reprimand.[27] According to the former owner of El Nuevo Rodeo, a Latin nightclub, Chauvin had worked there off duty as security while George Floyd was also working as security, but was not certain whether they knew each other.[28][29] The owner has been critical of Chauvin since his arrest, describing Chauvin's tactics as "overkill" and saying "Chauvin was unnecessarily aggressive on nights when the club had a black clientele, quelling fights by dousing the crowd with pepper spray and calling in several police squad cars as backup".[20][30]

OTHER LEGAL ISSUES

Civil rights investigation
The U.S. Department of Justice convened a grand jury in February 2021 to investigate Chauvin for several civil rights charges. The investigation included the killing of Floyd on May 25, 2020, and other incidents involving Chauvin, such as a September 2017 case where Chauvin pinned a 14-year old boy for several minutes with his knee while ignoring the boy's pleas that he could not breathe; the boy briefly lost consciousness. Though the 2017 case was similar to the 2020 killing of Floyd, it was deemed as inadmissible in Chauvin's trial for the murder of Floyd.[72][73]

Tax evasion charges
On July 22, 2020, after the murder charges were brought against him, Chauvin and his then-wife were separately charged in Washington County, Minnesota, on multiple felony counts of tax evasion[74] related to allegedly fraudulent state income tax returns from 2014 to 2019.[75] Prosecutors state the couple under-reported their joint income by $464,433, including more than $95,000 from Chauvin's off-duty security work.[76] The complaint also alleges failure to pay proper sales tax on a $100,000 BMW purchased in Minnesota in 2018, failure to declare income from Chauvin's wife's business, and improper deductions on a rental home.[77]

More on his past: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/be...xcessive-force

EDIT: Found this about Floyd's criminal history. Very detailed. https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/...iminal-record/

I have no time to research the credibility of Snopes, PBS, or any of the sources I used here. I did actively try to find as many "neutral" sites as possible. There is SO much crap to weed through with this subject.

[WonderMomma]

The president made that comment after the jury had been sequestered for deliberation. He even said something about that is why he was saying it at the time. Because they would not see it before they reached their verdict.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by dankboosh

No, I wouldn't say that if Trump had done the same thing.

Because Biden said it when the jury was already sequestered, meaning they didn't hear it before they rendered their verdict. So it had zero impact on their decision, which you are implying it is.

I know common sense is tough for you.

No, I'm not implying it is, I know for a fact it did. Because possibly the jury didn't hear that particular statement. But they heard the many other previous that didn't mention Chauvin, but were about police brutality and police racism and about George Floyd.

Dude seriously, look at what's happening in this country. It's getting worse everyday. You approve of what this country is becoming? Or are you so blinded by the US vs them, and you feel like your side is winning so you're happy about it. But what are you winning? And at what cost?

A Ohio police officer saved a girl from being stabbed, possibly murdered the other day. By shooting the person who was without a doubt on a rampage to stick her knife into another person. And Lebron James tweeted his picture of the cop with the caption "you're next".

This cop just saved someone's life. This is out of control, this mob feels like they have all the power now. Which goes against everything this country was built on. And guess what, the people leading this mob, are all becoming millionaires.

And you have Nancy Pelosi saying "Thank you George Floyd for dieing".

You have Floyd's brother saying Floyd is Emmitt Till. Which I'd a disgrace. Not a shred of evidence was brought forth in the trial or anywhere at all that Chauvin was racist. And you don't think every stone was turned to find that racism? Not a single person stepped forward and said Chauvin said something racist in their presence. And that person would have been welcomed like a hero, but no one came forward.

Look at all the trials coming up. Rittenhouse, that father son who shot the "jogger". There's several others I can't think of off the top of my head. Are all these and all future trials going to be trials with the threat of mob violence directing the outcomes?

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by niknik

And you're wrong. The 3rd degree murder charge is all about intent. To be guilty of that charge the jury said he intended to kill Floyd. That he knew Floyd could die.

This is a little deceptive....
1st degree murder is about intent to kill.
3rd degree murder is about a dangerous act that could harm/kill.

3rd degree murder is defined "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Meaning, he didn't initially intend to kill Floyd... but his actions were dangerous enough to kill, yet he continued them without regard for Floyds life.

Here is the exact statue on 3rd degree murder in Minnesota.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

Source: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

[niknik]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma

Yes, but I believe the knee on the neck was a contributing factor. Also his panic when they tried to put him in the vehicle. Don't believe the drugs alone would have killed him without those other contributing factors. And likely the same if reversed, if there were no drugs involved, nor panic... perhaps a knee to the neck wouldn't have killed him.

The drugs, the struggling on his part, the knee to the side of the neck for 10 minutes... all contributing factors, imo.

Who knows what will happen. Sad to say that if he is found not guilty, there will likely be more violence.

The video shows the knee was on his upper back, kinda where the back of the neck and back meet. All the reports of kneeling on his neck are false.

And again, why everyone just ignores common sense and well known responses to being choked. Not 1 time did Floyd cough, or gasp for air, not 1 time did Floyd speak and have his voice sound as if he was being choked or struggling to breathe. Not 1 time did he act panicked as one does when they are suffocating and trying to breathe.


But let's say you're correct, it was a contributor to his death. But the hold alone wouldn't have killed him normally, without the high amount of drugs, without his serious health problem.

Then Chauvin is innocent of 3rd degree murder. And probably innocent of 2nd degree murder.

The jury's decision says he intended to kill Floyd. It says he knew Floyd could die, and he was fine with that. And also that he was deliberately trying to cause harm to Floyd, and was deliberately doing a felony assault to Floyd before his death.

And now people want him to spend life. There's people who wish he would be put to death. I guess so much for justice being blind. So much for equal protection, equal punishment. It seems our system of justice is crumbling.