[Bletch]

Not to go off-topic but one have to question the terrorists ability to fight when confronted like in United 93. It seems to me, they are easily overcome and this just proves that cowardnes is their only weapon. Take the examples how they fight us during the war on terrorism, hiding behind civilians..women and children alike.
I strongly believe that if planes where hijacked again, the passenger would take up the fight. I would certainly do! I rather die trying to fight back than to sit by and watch my time come. If my last thoughts were that I did something and even killed a bastard al-qaeda terrorist. Wouldn't you ?

[Necrosis]

Originally Posted by Bletch ↗

Not to go off-topic but one have to question the terrorists ability to fight when confronted like in United 93. It seems to me, they are easily overcome and this just proves that cowardnes is their only weapon.

/facepalm
Well. There were 4 hijackers versus 40 desperate people on that plane, bad odds for the terrorists dont you think?

Take the examples how they fight us during the war on terrorism, hiding behind civilians..women and children alike.

No more cowardly than a pilot hiding in his plane 5 kms above the battlefield, remember that this is/was war, and in war all means are allowed.

PS. Just making it clear: I hate the perps as much as any other here.

[Billthegravedigger]

Take your average everyday normal person, and they are not very keen on the idea of being sliced, or stabbed. Even though the knives and boxcutters were small, they were still able to kill people with them, and did kill people with them.

I don't think the passengers were really aware of what was up right away. If they had been, I believe they would have fought back. The difference with United 93 was that is was the last plane highjacked, and they were able to find out that it was a suicide mission. They knew they were going to die if they did nothing, so they at least tried.

Flight 11 and Flight 175 were also fairly close to their targets all things considered. People from all 4 flights were able to talk to people on the ground, but where as Flight 11 had already hit the North Tower, people on United 175 were mid conversation when they were about to hit the South Tower.

A man talking to his dad on Flight 175 saw the North Tower on fire and realized what was about to happen. He said "Oh my God" several times and then the call was cut off....................just like thousands of people's lives were cut off that day.

[Billthegravedigger]

No more cowardly than a pilot hiding in his plane 5 kms above the battlefield, remember that this is/was war, and in war all means are allowed.

Had they not attacked us, they would not have to worry about it.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by ebneter ↗

Bin Laden in particular also had a huge problem with the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf War. IIRC, the targets he wanted for 9/11 were the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and either the White House or the Capitol Building. It's not clear which of the latter Flight 93 was supposed to hit.

The way KSM talked, it was supposed to be the Capitol Building.

[Billthegravedigger]

This has pretty good detail.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by alcapwn27 ↗

they probably died in mid-air from shock...

I honestly wish they would have. The fact is..........they were very alive, and very awake all the way down. I am not afraid of a whole lot, but heights TERRIFY the shit right out of me.

Every time they hit, you would hear that terrible combination of sounds. A crunch, splat, bang, and the echoing throughout the plaza. They were very much alive, and very much awake.

[ebneter]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

The way KSM talked, it was supposed to be the Capitol Building.

Yeah, I think KSM wanted the Capitol, and bin Laden maybe the White House.

Regarding the hijackings: One thing I think for sure is that no one will hijack another plane for a very long time, because everyone will assume that it is a suicide mission and the hijackers will be jumped. This has already happened a number of times, most recently with the JetBlue pilot who wigged out and got stomped by a bunch of passengers. Shortly after 9/11 there was a guy on a plane in South America who, IIRC, said he had a bomb or something and was nearly beaten to death by the passengers.

[dandroid]

Originally Posted by alcapwn27 ↗

they probably died in mid-air from shock...

shock is a state that requires a couple features...blood loss, or the increase in blood vessel capacitance that causes low pressure...emotional shock is a poor term we use to describe awe...it is not fatal...unless unconscious from smoke inahaltion or having been hit bysomething...these people experienced the entire "trip"

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

shock is a state that requires a couple features...blood loss, or the increase in blood vessel capacitance that causes low pressure...emotional shock is a poor term we use to describe awe...it is not fatal...unless unconscious from smoke inahaltion or having been hit bysomething...these people experienced the entire "trip"

Dan, you have confirmed my worst fear for these poor souls. And you being an EMT, you would very well know exactly what you are talking about. I had hoped against hope that fear took them out before they hit, but I know it didn't.