[SOTIC]

And I have been there

[curvature]

wow he was a white guy so I guess no fucked up excuses for the cops this time huh

[KAVALLERIE4]

Originally Posted by Blacksun_Viper1 ↗

Just because you won't admit you wanted to use your weapon doesn't mean it's not true just means your full of shit. 22 years in LEO? So you have never said everyone is a criminal? The majority of your friends aren't LEO? Dude you're a liar or you don't know your friends very well. Probably one of those outcast types.

Oh you know me so well. I never said this cop was innocent of anything. All I said was not to convict him in the court of public opinion without ALL the evidence. I've been in the courtroom enough to know personal feelings and philosophies can color testimony. Sometimes people are so beholden to their own belief system it becomes gospel truth to them. It is not cut and dry. Video does not always tell the entire story either. Remember Rodney King? You are the one being a close minded jerk. You have this guy convicted and you were not even there. And I never acquitted him.That's the difference.

[SOTIC]

Loons delivered one only one blow that may have been excessive in the King arrest. If your actually a cop you know that. I notice you answer none of my questions to you.
We have moved into a police state. Officers are quick to pull their weapons because the academies teach them to.... Under the escalation of force pyramid an officer and a citizen may use one force extension higher than that used against them. Open hand, Closed Hand, Less than lethal closed hand, lethal closed hand. So the question becomes if a LEO pulls his weapon before a citizen has escalated force to less than lethal closed hand then isn't is the responsibility of the citizens as a whole to escalate the situation to lethal force against the officer. To protect themselves and the third person? Especially since most officers shoot an average of 82% upon graduation of the academy and the average armed citizens shoot over 93% according to the ATF AND FBI. Oh yeah I instruct both police and citizens. Of course we are talking averages here. Every academy has a top shot every citizen group a bottom shot.

[KAVALLERIE4]

Originally Posted by Blacksun_Viper1 ↗

Loons delivered one only one blow that may have been excessive in the King arrest. If your actually a cop you know that. I notice you answer none of my questions to you.
We have moved into a police state. Officers are quick to pull their weapons because the academies teach them to.... Under the escalation of force pyramid an officer and a citizen may use one force extension higher than that used against them. Open hand, Closed Hand, Less than lethal closed hand, lethal closed hand. So the question becomes if a LEO pulls his weapon before a citizen has escalated force to less than lethal closed hand then isn't is the responsibility of the citizens as a whole to escalate the situation to lethal force against the officer. To protect themselves and the third person? Especially since most officers shoot an average of 82% upon graduation of the academy and the average armed citizens shoot over 93% according to the ATF AND FBI. Oh yeah I instruct both police and citizens. Of course we are talking averages here. Every academy has a top shot every citizen group a bottom shot.

Questions? Sorry all I saw were a series of rude comments followed by a question mark. I know nothing of your background but it sounds predominantly academic in nature, spouting stats and use of force continuum talking points. As a police officer I know it is entirely permissible to draw a weapon when one reasonably believes a threat of deadly physical force is imminent. In my state deadly physical force does not have to cause death only serious physical injury. For example a choke hold on an officer can be stopped with a firearm because a disabled cop means a gun in the hands of a violent subject. If I believe a subject intends dpf even though I don't yet see a weapon you damn better believe Ill have mine out. I do agree with you on the apparent police state running rampant but that's largely the feral government and the DOJ under the current pathetic administration which runs guns to Mexican drug cartels (Fast and Furious) or sends people to console the families of thugs who attack cops. (Michael Brown) These actions ramp up tension on both sides. You say you are some kind of trainer? Is that including firearms? What do the cops say if you suggested the scenario where a citizen pulls a weapon to protect himself from a cop during a lawful arrest? Am I missing something? BTW I am an avid 2A supporter.

[SOTIC]

I bring up the citizen against officer scenario all the time while teaching firearms at academies. I get blank stares. I am 10 year + active certified LEO. Was with the Coroners office as an OMI as well during that time. I work for a Private Military Firm that contracts instructors to LEO and private citizen groups. When the contractor is not being utilized in combat theater. A couple years ago one of those liberal shows like 60 minutes did a show on
" mercenaries" training federal and state law enforcement. I tell all my classes if you escalate force you may find someone who understands the pyramid and will kill you. There are a couple of these cases headed for the Supreme Court of US. I'm a 3%er but my own beliefs stay out of my roll as an instructor

[KAVALLERIE4]

Originally Posted by Blacksun_Viper1 ↗

I bring up the citizen against officer scenario all the time while teaching firearms at academies. I get blank stares. I am 10 year + active certified LEO. Was with the Coroners office as an OMI as well during that time. I work for a Private Military Firm that contracts instructors to LEO and private citizen groups. When the contractor is not being utilized in combat theater. A couple years ago one of those liberal shows like 60 minutes did a show on
" mercenaries" training federal and state law enforcement. I tell all my classes if you escalate force you may find someone who understands the pyramid and will kill you. There are a couple of these cases headed for the Supreme Court of US. I'm a 3%er but my own beliefs stay out of my roll as an instructor

Well maybe we have more in common than 1st thought. I hate nothing more than a dirty cop. Maybe I'm fortunate to work for a larger NE county department with a good rep where these are few and far between. I see cops in my department do things daily that make me beam with pride. None of it makes the news. I get my dander up when they get attacked. As a result my instinct is to defend 1st. We may differ in some details philosophically but its good vs evil out there and I believe we both want the same thing.

[dirty ike]

Originally Posted by KAVALLERIE4 ↗

A cop gets into a situation where deadly physical force is clearly justified.....and some touchy feely libtard who thinks criminals are misunderstood and whose only life experience is working as a counselor in a college campus now sits on a review board deciding what happens to said cops livelihood? Get real.

Oh I get it only cops should have any thing to do with an investigation against their own , no outsiders allowed, great idea , sorry I missed that way of thinking. Their are way to damn many cops including you who think they are the only ones qualified to make decisions concerning other cops actions-dude you are the one who needs to GET REAL

[dockman]

How did he get that trench on his face? Bullet grazing?

[KAVALLERIE4]

Originally Posted by dirty ike ↗

Oh I get it only cops should have any thing to do with an investigation against their own , no outsiders allowed, great idea , sorry I missed that way of thinking. Their are way to damn many cops including you who think they are the only ones qualified to make decisions concerning other cops actions-dude you are the one who needs to GET REAL

Umm... yeah that's the way it is. I don't want anyone with no understanding of what is involved in these encounters deciding what happens to my livelihood any more than you want someone with a degree in sociology doing brain surgery on you. You people are clueless and your point of view is based on emotion. I get that you don't like cops watching cops but it can and does work. Cops are put into positions every day where they are forced to do something they would rather not based on the actions of people you apparently sympathize with. Because of this more and more of us elect NOT to take action because they are afraid of lawsuits and getting jammed up from their superiors. There are no perfect solutions. Sometimes a cop acts improperly and he or she gets away with it. I don't like it either. But it works. The alternative is to have savages running rampant committing violent crimes at will. It is happening all over the country. The cops in Baltimore were wrongly charged just to appease the looting scumbag mobs. This ok with you?