I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

[Ess-Eye]

Damn, Bill, you're a lucky man!...you need to maintain your guns better though!! ...nah but seriously mate, you're one of the best on this sick site, glad you're still with us, brother!

[ernyzaz]

bill, firstly you are not evil or saint, YOU ARE HUMAN. Ok back to your story, um you saying that thing witi pills, gun and the man is totaly 100 percent unexplainable? Still i think you, me and all people experienced more things to NOT believe im god, than to believe. Not gona argue about your story its your life, your mind and your belief. In my country most people, cuz of poor life style etc.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by dankboosh

Oh boy. I'll do my best to be respectful, since that seems to be what Bill wants most. Bill, in one of your earlier comments, you stated that god is real. Then later you said no one can really know if he's real, but we'll find out when we die. Which is it?

You're a believer, and you have a satanist background. Why is it that people with fucked up pasts always end up believing in god? Look at the executions in the usa threads, 90% of those piece of shit murderers about to be put to death use their last words to praise god. Drug addicts turn to god to recover. Child molesters and rapists say they've found god... after they've been caught and prosecuted. Perhaps I need to hail satan, kill someone, rape someone or get hooked on meth to find god. If god wanted to help these people turn their lives around... let me take a detour for a second.

The bible says god gave us all free will, which explains why he doesn't just force us to believe in him. Yet many believers, like Bill here, have fantastical stories about how god spoke to them in one way or another. Through a dream, another person, or even directly to them. Why does he pick people who have used that free will to fuck up their own lives? Why doesn't he choose to interject himself in situations where people's lives have been ruined by things they cannot control? Paraplegics, the mentally challenged, crack babies, etc. Makes no sense.

The mind is a powerful tool. It can play tricks on us. Like when people see a light during a near death experience and think it's the light of heaven or whatever, when it can actually be medically explained quite easily.

The bible is such an unbelievable story, it's like the diary of a madman. People believe because they were raised that way, they use it as a crutch or to convince themselves and others that they have reformed. The ability to live a good life without sin is in us all, no one needs religion for that. In this day and age, it baffles me that so many people disagree with that.

Thank you, and you were quite respectful. I wont lie man, I do not have all the answers, I wish I did. What I meant by he is real, we will find out one day is that he is real. That is my faith, faith is believing in things not yet seen, but you believe it anyway. The other part is, how can we as humans prove that he is, or is not real ? We can't even get our own shit figured out, how can we figure him out when he made us and everything we see ?

I can tell you what I see as proof, but it can mean something else to you. Again, that is where faith comes in. To be honest, I asked the VERY same question you asked. Why does he choose to show things to a fucked up half wit like me, when I am about the worst of the worst. Someone's answer kind of messed with me. Bear with me, I know not everyone thinks or believes the same.

The way it was explained to me is like this..........we are all born with certain purposes, it is up to us if we live up to those purposes. He can want a person that has had a "normal" life to do certain things. That does not mean they will do it.
It usually takes someone that has done bad shit most of their life to appreciate the concept of God. Some people appreciate that concept without being a murderer, crackhead, whore that will fuck anything, drunk and so on.

Some people have different concepts of "what" or "who" God is, but in the end when we die, we will find out if our concepts are right. Don't get me wrong, I think plenty of people, myself included, will have some very big surprises when we die.

When I say I know God is real, he is to me, that is faith. Because I believe he is real, does not mean I follow the Bible 100 %. As I said in an earlier post, when it comes to the Bible, I think some meanings get lost in translation. And let's face it, is it above man to change some things to suite their purpose ? No, it is not. Because I believe in God, that does not mean I take all of it to be 100% ironclad. People are evil, and if they will kill to attian what they want, they will change words in a book to scare people into following what they think they should follow.

That has been a problem since man has been alive. We don't see eye to eye at times, and will use all sorts of tactics to change people's minds. That could be said of me I guess, but I am not telling people they better belive everything I am saying, in fact, I know quite a few will not, and will label me as a fool, a quack, and so on. I am simply presenting this to people, and I know I will not change anyones mind. If I can get them to at least think about it a little, where did we come from ? Is God real ? What is wrong with that ? I am not trying to impose my ideas on anyone, just sharing experiences that brought me to my conclusion that he is real. If I was saying you better do what I say, or you will die and go to hell, then yeah, that could be saids of me. On another point, The woman that died, and the man I have only seen twice in my life did not do that either. She said I would be in deeptrouble, not do it or you will die and go to hell for all time. All he said was I could only try suicide so many times before God would let me succeed. Considering the circumstances, I would think that was a mild warning compared to what some people say.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by satanic ideals

Damn, Bill, you're a lucky man!...you need to maintain your guns better though!! ...nah but seriously mate, you're one of the best on this sick site, glad you're still with us, brother!

On a sad and somewhat funny note, it was a Smith and Wesson .38 I had bought for the exwife when she was working at Subway. The gun fired every single time after that event.

[dankboosh]

Another great story Bill. You still haven't answered my questions or responded to my statements. You were lucky to survive what you did, and you're not the only one that these things have happened to. Most people would wonder how the fuck some dude knew where you lived instead of seeing it as a message from god. Also, your messenger of god had eyes filled with pure evil? Wtf? You said it yourself, you were a bad dude that did some evil shit, why would god choose you to save? Why not good people with cancer or mental disorders? None of this shit makes any logical sense, and no sensational stories will convince me it does.

[dankboosh]

Whoops, didn't know you'd responded when I posted that. Going to read your comment now, disregard the first part of mine.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by ernyzaz

bill, firstly you are not evil or saint, YOU ARE HUMAN. Ok back to your story, um you saying that thing witi pills, gun and the man is totaly 100 percent unexplainable? Still i think you, me and all people experienced more things to NOT believe im god, than to believe. Not gona argue about your story its your life, your mind and your belief. In my country most people, cuz of poor life style etc.

Thank you, and I mean it. I know I wont change anyone's mind, and that is not what I was trying to do. Everyone has their reasons for the way they feel and think. I do like to hear other people's thoughgts on such subjects though. If we all thought alike, the world would be very boring .

With you, I feel I will get an honest answer, but you will not be completely disrespectful either. That is what I like, honesty, and not being disrespectful because you feel differently about things. Just think, if all of us humans could concentrate on what we have in common, instead of our differences, the world would be very different.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by dankboosh

Another great story Bill. You still haven't answered my questions or responded to my statements. You were lucky to survive what you did, and you're not the only one that these things have happened to. Most people would wonder how the fuck some dude knew where you lived instead of seeing it as a message from god. Also, your messenger of god had eyes filled with pure evil? Wtf? You said it yourself, you were a bad dude that did some evil shit, why would god choose you to save? Why not good people with cancer or mental disorders? None of this shit makes any logical sense, and no sensational stories will convince me it does.

You misread my statement. I said I have looked into people's eyes that were evil, and some have intimidated me, but I would not back down from them.

I did not see evil in his eyes, I saw what I would consider to be the power of God, and it scared the shit out of me. Two very different things there. It's possible I misworded it, I do from tim,e to time, but I did not see evil in his eyes, and he was the only person that looked at me that way, like he could see through me into my soul, and it scared the hell out of me.

[dankboosh]

Okay. It's clear you believe strongly in what you say. Honestly, it's a battle for me to stay respectful and kind when it comes to this topic, it bothers me more than anything else in this life. But I try. It makes more sense to me when people say they believe in a higher power (although I don't) and they can't give it a name or explain it, but they believe it's out there. When people say they believe in god, I think of the bible, since that's the name given in that book. How can you believe in god and not follow all the words of his book? You can't have it both ways.

Why do you think the majority of brilliant thinkers, geniuses and the like, are atheists or agnostic? The bible is nonsensical, and does not pass the logic test. That's how we test everything else in life, why doesn't it apply to religion? The idea of heaven, of having someone watching out for you, is quite comforting. Like believing in santa claus as a child. As Einstein once said about the idea of god, it's a "product of human weakness."

[Feirefiz]

Speak for yourself, I am of bullshit !!

How you been doing man ?

Hey, I'm fine! How are you? :)
Bullshit is also an interesting association! What about saber-toothed-cat-jizz?^^

But BTT:
This thread reminded me of a post I made a few days ago on this forum. At first: I do not at all want to come to any terrorist's or muslim hate-preacher's defense here, but I think that, when we deal with the question of what god is, we should talk about Allah at least as a side note!
Many posts in this thread ask the old question of why god admits so many evil in the world whilst he is allegedly allmighty. This problem is called "Theodicy". What is very interesting about this problem is, that in Islam there is no such problem and no such question also! Christians picture their god very often as an old man - at least as a person. This christian god can "do things" and therefore it is not very easy to understand, why he doesn't avoid evil. But in Islam, Allah is never pictured as a person. Funnily enough, Allah in the muslim tradition is more what many posters in this thread said about their christian god: a spiritual power. Qu'ran says, that Allah "isn't, has never been and will never be" and also that he "wasn't created and did not create". Allah is like the highest form of a very abstract and, eventually, very intellectual idea of a spirit. Allah can't change things, they simply happen. Yes, he is allmighty but his allmight is of such a high form, that he cannot change things or fight evil. This is the truth, or, this is what Islam says. It's also the reason for there are no pictures of Allah in Islam, because there can't be pictures of Allah. This is a vast difference to christianity: look at the Vatican e.g. the Sixtina! God is pictured as a human being. Some people call Allah a "child lover" but this is also not true. Allah can't be a childlover, because he cannot *do* anything. This was Mohammed.
And as a further side note, let me repeat what I wrote in this other thread: It is always said, that Allah punishes people in the Qu'ran, but this is not true! Allah never punishes people, not in a single passage of the Qu'ran. Yes, we as christians read it, and we understand it with our christian POV. But Qu'ran says explicitly and in many passages, that the evil people were wrong, but they did not know it. Then they were shown Allah and they were punished by their mistake (and NOT by Allah). This is also very interesting, because Islam says, that a person cannot sin, if he/she doesn't know the truth about Allah. Here is also a vast difference to Christianity because the Bible says, that all people are sinners. In Islam you cannot sin as long as you DON'T KNOW that you are doing something wrong. I don't want to claim Islam being anyhow "further developed" than Christianity, but I think that one can see, that Islam came decades later and was founded on a rather larger base of exegesis.

It would be very nice, if you, all of you, would abandon to call me a Muslim or whatever, because I am not. I think it is important to know about Islam and to understand it as a religion. Islam is not a "moon cult" and we do good to be a bit more tolerant. Islam, in his true form, has nothing to do with suicide bombers or even with hidjab (the hidjab is a local tradition, and I think you know, that russian women also wear hidjab ;) ) Islam has a long and chatoyant history and culture, at least in Europe, where the supremacy of Muslims in South-West-Europe ended the Dark Middleages and planted the germ for the era of Renaissance which eventually led to the conquering of the New World! This is OUR history. We should not despise it.

THX.