[Eldiablo72]

Originally Posted by gimlet ↗

Arguing with fat stupid people holding guns over a piece of garbage in a dumpster? That seems to be the definition of stupidity / crazy. I wonder what the courts will say about shooting a guy who throws a bat at your dad's head. Texas has "stand your ground" law, but I can't remember the details.

Stand your ground doesn't include going out of your way further escalating an already volatile situation. This here is capital murder. Neither has the right to pull a firearm on the other when they're both in the wrong. Now if the two fat inbred hillbillies were doing all they can to de-escalate the situation or if it were their property they might have a prayer for self defense, not here though.

[18Zulu]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

This is a perfect example of an abuse of stand your ground. An example of setting your own stage.

I mean this older suspect allegedly started the entire confrontation, and did so armed. And brandished his firearm while the deceased was still in his backyard and the suspect was in his.

According to witnesses the confrontation escalated very quickly after the weapon was drawn. So a jury could see that what lead to the shooting was not a dispute over a trashed mattress but a dispute over a neighbor pulling out a gun on a family.

As the deceased was accompanied by 3 or 4 members of his family at that time. 2 of which were children.

And stand your ground doesn't mean you can start an argument and pull your gun. And just continue the argument. One might say the suspect committed a felony when he pulled the firearm. Which takes away any stand your ground defense.

And the deceased did threaten the suspect. But the suspect was threatening the victim too. And only 1 had a gun. And then his son comes out with a shotgun. And they both seemingly threaten and just keep the altercation going seemingly hoping to get the victim to cross a threshold where they feel gives them cause.

And then you have demeanor. Stand your ground also states you must be in fear of you life or serious injury. I'm pretty confident neither suspect looked to be in fear at any point. They actually seemed to be enjoying it. Knowing they had it under control and were in no danger.

And then there's the woman's statement that after shooting her husband. And she runs to him . The father points the pistol at her head and orders her to lay down and the son does the same to the brother of the victim.

Which if true, is beyond fucked up. If I witnessed that I might have put them two down myself.

I'm all for the stand your ground laws. I'm a gun carrier. I have a pistol in the console of my vehicles. I conceal carry whenever I go certain places. I think it's a good important law.

I just happen to feel these two give people like me a bad rap. I think they make all gun owners look bad. Because it's about being a responsible gun owner. And only using or even pulling your weapon to save a life.

And when you are armed. It's no different than if you're a police officer. You should be held to a higher standard. You don't pick fights, or start altercations. You don't walk out of your yard to an alleyway to have an altercation.

Basically, you don't act like you're some fucking badass because your gun will do your fighting.

What if you got into a disagreement with these guys? And you both were like "fuck you, no fuck you" and they pull out guns.

Are you going to think, "well they got me, good for them". Or would you be furious? I know I would be furious.

Though I appreciate your well laid out argument. You are overlooking a couple of facts.

Ed the meth head had a history of violent criminal offences and had been confrontational on several occasions making threats to the shooters family members.

The shooter did come out with a firearm as you pointed out on his own property. This is legal. Furthermore because of Ed the meth heads history it was appropriate. Brandishing a firearm does not mean that the firearm is clearly visible in the hand. There was no brandishing involved in this whole case.

Ed the meth head was told repeatedly not to dump his garbage in this private dumpster paid for by the shooter. The police had also made it clear that he could not do this but Ed being the scumbag that he was ignored all of this.

Maybe you are the type to be bullied and accept a situation like this. That’s on you. The letter of the law is on the side of the shooter.

When faced with a known violent offender I for one am going to drop brass. As far as what will or won’t piss me off in a situation like this. I am not your average Joe. My extensive training, long special operations career and personality just don’t allow me to think with emotion. So I cannot speak to what the average person will or won’t be emotional about.

I’m glad you exercise your 2A. I’m glad to see your well thought out opinion on this matter. Just remember law is law and facts are facts. The law and the facts are on the side of the shooter.

It is my opinion that this situation doesn’t make gun owners look bad and it is my hopes that the case is dismissed. I believe it will send a message that says loud and clear if you threaten to kill someone in this state you will pay for it dearly.

Even if it doesn’t end that way at least this worthless meth head is dead.

[niknik]

And under many states you get back your gun rights after a felony after so much time has passed without any more convictions. Some times it matters if it's a violent crime or if a gun was used in the crime. In that case some states won't give back gun rights.

But none of that really matters because under federal law you can never legally own or possess a firearm. Ever. No matter what. Even if it's expunged.

Especially you can not purchase a gun from anyone or anywhere thst requires a background check. Because you must answer the felony question.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by 18Zulu ↗

Though I appreciate your well laid out argument. You are overlooking a couple of facts.

Ed the meth head had a history of violent criminal offences and had been confrontational on several occasions making threats to the shooters family members.

The shooter did come out with a firearm as you pointed out on his own property. This is legal. Furthermore because of Ed the meth heads history it was appropriate. Brandishing a firearm does not mean that the firearm is clearly visible in the hand. There was no brandishing involved in this whole case.

Ed the meth head was told repeatedly not to dump his garbage in this private dumpster paid for by the shooter. The police had also made it clear that he could not do this but Ed being the scumbag that he was ignored all of this.

Maybe you are the type to be bullied and accept a situation like this. That’s on you. The letter of the law is on the side of the shooter.

When faced with a known violent offender I for one am going to drop brass. As far as what will or won’t piss me off in a situation like this. I am not your average Joe. My extensive training, long special operations career and personality just don’t allow me to think with emotion. So I cannot speak to what the average person will or won’t be emotional about.

I’m glad you exercise your 2A. I’m glad to see your well thought out opinion on this matter. Just remember law is law and facts are facts. The law and the facts are on the side of the shooter.

It is my opinion that this situation doesn’t make gun owners look bad and it is my hopes that the case is dismissed. I believe it will send a message that says loud and clear if you threaten to kill someone in this state you will pay for it dearly.

Even if it doesn’t end that way at least this worthless meth head is dead.

I don't know what's the correct information.

But the information I've read states it's a community dumpster. Not a trash can or those plastic carts. But an actual big steal dumpster. Likely these are rentals and the landlord provides the dumpster just for that reason of people not paying for trash service and trashing the properties. So if true. They had just as much right to use it .

And the suspect had zero right to take their trash out and throw it in their yard.

Also it's not clear Ed the meth head did make threats previously. Because it's also been reported this was the first time they ever spoke. They've never even met before this event.

And sure it's legal to carry your gun to take your neighbors trash out of the dumpster and throw it in his yard. Wearing nothing but a pair of shorts. But again. Doing so kinda shows you know what you're doing is going to start a problem.

So if those two things are true. Do you still feel the same?


On Sept. 1, a Saturday, Howard, Box, Campbell and Campbell’s three children were driving down the alley in a Suburban pulling a trailer to put items in the backyard, Box said. They noticed a twin-sized mattress/box spring that they had put in the community trash container several days earlier was on the ground next to their property, she said.

After Howard returned the mattress to the trash bin, John Miller came out into the alley, pulled the mattress out*and threw it on the ground, Box said.

Howard yelled at him to put it back in the container so that the city would pick it up, Box said.

John Miller pulled out a gun from his shorts and refused to pick up the mattress, Box said. Michael Miller popped his head out of the gate for a moment, disappeared and then came out to the alley with a shotgun.

About a minute into the argument, Box started*videoing the scene. Campbell removed the children from the Suburban and took them into the house. He also called 911, Box said

After Howard returned the mattress to the trash bin, John Miller came out into the alley, pulled the mattress out*and threw it on the ground, Box said.

Howard yelled at him to put it back in the container so that the city would pick it up, Box said.

John Miller pulled out a gun from his shorts and refused to pick up the mattress, Box said. Michael Miller popped his head out of the gate for a moment, disappeared and then came out to the alley with a shotgun.

About a minute into the argument, Box started*videoing the scene. Campbell removed the children from the Suburban and took them into the house. He also called 911, Box said

-Abeline Reporter

[niknik]

Witness: Alley shooting was first time victim and father-and-son suspects met

Laura Gutschke

Abilene


The first conversation Aaron Howard had with his neighbors John Miller, 67, and his son, Michael Miller, 37, was Howard’s last – with them or anyone else, a witness said.

A heated argument Sept. 1 in the alley in the 4300 block of Don Juan Street about a mattress/box spring discarded in the community trash container turned deadly, with Howard, 37, shot in the chest, head and arm. The Millers were arrested by Abilene police immediately and charged with murder.

“We had never spoken to the Millers until that morning,” said Kara Box, Howard's common-law wife, Monday.

She recorded part of the deadly confrontation on her cellphone, which was reviewed by an Abilene detective. Her cellphone*was taken as evidence the day of the shooting, Box said. *

Sorry posted the same paragraph instead of this one from same source

[niknik]

Originally Posted by 18Zulu ↗

Though I appreciate your well laid out argument. You are overlooking a couple of facts.

Ed the meth head had a history of violent criminal offences and had been confrontational on several occasions making threats to the shooters family members.

The shooter did come out with a firearm as you pointed out on his own property. This is legal. Furthermore because of Ed the meth heads history it was appropriate. Brandishing a firearm does not mean that the firearm is clearly visible in the hand. There was no brandishing involved in this whole case.

Ed the meth head was told repeatedly not to dump his garbage in this private dumpster paid for by the shooter. The police had also made it clear that he could not do this but Ed being the scumbag that he was ignored all of this.

Maybe you are the type to be bullied and accept a situation like this. That’s on you. The letter of the law is on the side of the shooter.

When faced with a known violent offender I for one am going to drop brass. As far as what will or won’t piss me off in a situation like this. I am not your average Joe. My extensive training, long special operations career and personality just don’t allow me to think with emotion. So I cannot speak to what the average person will or won’t be emotional about.

I’m glad you exercise your 2A. I’m glad to see your well thought out opinion on this matter. Just remember law is law and facts are facts. The law and the facts are on the side of the shooter.

It is my opinion that this situation doesn’t make gun owners look bad and it is my hopes that the case is dismissed. I believe it will send a message that says loud and clear if you threaten to kill someone in this state you will pay for it dearly.

Even if it doesn’t end that way at least this worthless meth head is dead.

I am most certainly not a person who gets bullied or would put up with it. We just don't see the same person as the bully. To me, a bully is a person who would come out to a family, pull out this mattress and throw it on the ground and then pulls a gun and taunts you to do something about it.

These people just moved in. The fact the suspect even brings a gun out there for this in my opinion, makes him a bully. I haven't seen anything that says the suspect came out and tried to have a conversation. And the deceased started threatening him so he felt threatened.

I've been trained as well. Not in sf. And I spent a few years as a cop. Which is why my first thoughts are usually situation and intentions.

And I get see where the suspect was in the right. You can't create the situation to use stand your ground.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by 18Zulu ↗

Though I appreciate your well laid out argument. You are overlooking a couple of facts.

Ed the meth head had a history of violent criminal offences and had been confrontational on several occasions making threats to the shooters family members.

The shooter did come out with a firearm as you pointed out on his own property. This is legal. Furthermore because of Ed the meth heads history it was appropriate. Brandishing a firearm does not mean that the firearm is clearly visible in the hand. There was no brandishing involved in this whole case.

Ed the meth head was told repeatedly not to dump his garbage in this private dumpster paid for by the shooter. The police had also made it clear that he could not do this but Ed being the scumbag that he was ignored all of this.

Maybe you are the type to be bullied and accept a situation like this. That’s on you. The letter of the law is on the side of the shooter.

When faced with a known violent offender I for one am going to drop brass. As far as what will or won’t piss me off in a situation like this. I am not your average Joe. My extensive training, long special operations career and personality just don’t allow me to think with emotion. So I cannot speak to what the average person will or won’t be emotional about.

I’m glad you exercise your 2A. I’m glad to see your well thought out opinion on this matter. Just remember law is law and facts are facts. The law and the facts are on the side of the shooter.

It is my opinion that this situation doesn’t make gun owners look bad and it is my hopes that the case is dismissed. I believe it will send a message that says loud and clear if you threaten to kill someone in this state you will pay for it dearly.

Even if it doesn’t end that way at least this worthless meth head is dead.

I'm sure we agree on 99% of the self defense shootings. Maybe when all the facts are laid out we may agree on this one.

[Fordemups]

Only in America would could this happen. Two stupid fat cunts with guns, confident that they can kill someone and not face charges, arguing with another stupid cunt who is too proud to shut his stupid mouth and walk away. Then you have the misses who is either too stupid to try and deescalate the situation or she’s too scared of her bloke to step in and save him.

[Tyrantus]

COVID has delayed the shit out of this trial...there's still no date set. I really wanna see how this whole thing plays out in court.

[icehole]

Originally Posted by eyeful_hound ↗

...as they had over 40 other priority calls at the time.

damn, must be busy to be a police officer over there