Abu Ghraib Torture

Piper · #51 ● 10-08-2009, 10:51 AM

As a soldier where do you draw the line though... Some say to refuse the order is better than commit torture, but who defines torture? Geneva defines waterboarding as torture, and after WW2 Japanese were executed for war crimes for waterboarding Americans... For that matter invading Iraq in the first place was Illegal under the Geneva convention that the US is supposedly bound to.... Technically everyone there is commiting a war crime.... As defined by Geneva.

I guess some war crimes are punishable, and some are not.

agreed. the japanese did a lot of things though, the put babies on bayonettes to "scewer them" - american and canadians, british...that alliance- i am pretty sure they tortured too. the geneva convention is a joke whilst war is happening. and was a joke when Iraq was "invaded" if you by the rules.

it's a little too late to apply geneva convention rules after war. people have already been tortured and killed.

i guess it is a case by case situation in my mind's eye. what that barbarian did to daniel and admitted was also being tortured to admit his terrorist ties. then idiots like Rosie O said he only admitted it because he was being tortured. A. he murdered Daniel Pearl, which she forgot to mention so he was not innocent. B. are they not trained to take torture and not talk?
look, bottom line is i am against torture. it sickens me... however, i can understand it in some cases. i know it sounds hypocritical.

also, I saw a "reformed" torturer in an interview on 60 minutes. it was sort of interesting. it was basically "i was following orders" type thing...but in that area of the world it meant if he didn't he would be tortured, perhaps his family, and all be hung. he broke free and feels no remorse but would never do it again. no excuses like that in the west.

the guy who outed these photos was more of a criminal here than the torturers in many minds. they were fucking idiots to take photos anyway.

brezzoner · #52 ● 10-08-2009, 10:53 AM

good post

lexcheese · #53 ● 10-08-2009, 12:55 PM

Now I'm not saying that what they did was right, but come on now. Do you really think that America is the only to torture people? If these people got a hold of an American soldier, they'd ask for money, then decapitate him.

Like I said, I'm not saying that it is right or just; I'm just saying hey, we aren't the only fucking ones to do this shit. You can't judge people on something when you do the same exact thing.

ILDiva · #54 ● 10-08-2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by geo8x6 ↗

Some was fairly fun (chug a whole bottle of Jack Daniels and then run a mile without falling or puking) to violent (beat till you can't stand) to just plain gross (reach into a porta-potty to fish out your dog tags). Those guys at Abu Ghraib had it easy.

Abu Ghraib sounds like a cake walk compared to that.

ILDiva · #55 ● 10-08-2009, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowkeeper ↗

Quick bit of info:

Nine Army reservists have been convicted of abusing detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq:

— Pfc. Lynndie England, a 22-year-old reservist from Fort Ashby, W. Va., was sentenced Tuesday to three years in prison after being convicted on six of seven counts related to detainee abuse. England was found guilty of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on one conspiracy count.

— Former Cpl. Charles Graner Jr., of Uniontown, Pa., was found guilty in January. He is serving a 10-year prison term at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. Prosecutors described Graner, who England has said is the father of her infant son, as the ringleader of a group of Abu Ghraib guards who mistreated Iraqis.

— Former Spc. Megan Ambuhl, of Centreville, Va., a former Abu Ghraib guard now married to Graner, pleaded guilty in November 2004 to failing to prevent or report maltreatment of prisoners. She was discharged from the Army without prison time.

— Former Spc. Sabrina Harman, of Lorton, Va., was found guilty at trial in May of conspiracy, maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty. She was sentenced six months in prison after testimony about her acts of kindness toward Iraqis before she became an Abu Ghraib guard.

— Former Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick of Buckingham, Va., was sentenced to 81/2 years last October after pleading guilty to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees and other charges. Frederick said he helped place wires on a detainee's hands and told him he would be electrocuted if he fell while standing on a box.

— Former Spc. Jeremy Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., pleaded guilty in May 2004 to four counts for taking pictures of naked Iraqi prisoners being humiliated, including some of the photographs that triggered the Abu Ghraib scandal. He was sentenced to one year in prison.

— Former Spc. Roman Krol, of Randolph, Mass., admitted pouring water on naked detainees and forcing them to crawl around the floor. He also said he threw a foam football at them while they were handcuffed. Krol, who served in a military intelligence unit, was sentenced in February to 10 months in prison.

— Former Spc. Armin Cruz, of Plano, Texas, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and mistreating prisoners and was sentenced in September 2004 to eight months in prison. Cruz was part of the same military intelligence unit as Krol.

— Former Sgt. Javal Davis, Roselle, N.J., was sentenced to six months in prison after pleading guilty in February to assault, dereliction of duty and lying to Army investigators. The former sergeant admitted stepping on the hands and feet of handcuffed detainees and falling with his full weight on top of them.

Make of it what you will.

OK...I'm sorry but when I read the part about throwing the foam footballs at handcuffed detainees it made me LMAO!!! Oh the visual on that one.