[ILDiva]

Originally Posted by geo8x6 ↗

You should have seen some of the hazing I went through when I was in the military and college, makes Abu Ghraib seem like a Girl Scout meeting.

I've heard that sometimes the hazing rituals can get pretty violent and even deadly.

[xjmachine]

ya know, hundreds of people jumping from the 90th floor of a burning building is quit mild compared to this. This little piggy went to the market, this little piggy stayed home, this little piggy got bit on the ass by a dog, this little piggy got caught and can eat shit and die. fuck em' fuck em' fuck em'

[Azimuth]

Originally Posted by tara2 ↗

why cant we all just get along. and smoke joints?

Because we'd all be fat and apathetic and nothing would ever get done! Actually, doesn't sound bad at all, does it?

[geo8x6]

Originally Posted by ILDiva ↗

I've heard that sometimes the hazing rituals can get pretty violent and even deadly.

Some was fairly fun (chug a whole bottle of Jack Daniels and then run a mile without falling or puking) to violent (beat till you can't stand) to just plain gross (reach into a porta-potty to fish out your dog tags). Those guys at Abu Ghraib had it easy.

[Piper]

Originally Posted by skullsoup432 ↗

A typical rethuglican response.
Misery, sorrow, and repulsive human behavior don't bother you. Yet reading one paragraph of rational opinion make ya wanna puke.

Then, to show how classy you are, you flip 'em off.

Big man, pig man
HA HA charade you are.

aw, all of the that followed or rather the - what can you do. i was asking valid questions. that's all. Rumsfeld resigned, the orders came from him or were okayed by him. why, when Bush said america didn't torture. who lied? like i said Bush didn't have to lie, because everyone knew that wasn't true anyway. I am not liberal, but i am human.
however, i had no problem when they tortured (probably water boarded) the guy at Guantanamo that proudly admitted fully to hurting and beheading and beheading Daniel Pearl.

[Shadowkeeper]

Quick bit of info:

Nine Army reservists have been convicted of abusing detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq:

— Pfc. Lynndie England, a 22-year-old reservist from Fort Ashby, W. Va., was sentenced Tuesday to three years in prison after being convicted on six of seven counts related to detainee abuse. England was found guilty of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on one conspiracy count.

— Former Cpl. Charles Graner Jr., of Uniontown, Pa., was found guilty in January. He is serving a 10-year prison term at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. Prosecutors described Graner, who England has said is the father of her infant son, as the ringleader of a group of Abu Ghraib guards who mistreated Iraqis.

— Former Spc. Megan Ambuhl, of Centreville, Va., a former Abu Ghraib guard now married to Graner, pleaded guilty in November 2004 to failing to prevent or report maltreatment of prisoners. She was discharged from the Army without prison time.

— Former Spc. Sabrina Harman, of Lorton, Va., was found guilty at trial in May of conspiracy, maltreating detainees and dereliction of duty. She was sentenced six months in prison after testimony about her acts of kindness toward Iraqis before she became an Abu Ghraib guard.


— Former Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick of Buckingham, Va., was sentenced to 81/2 years last October after pleading guilty to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees and other charges. Frederick said he helped place wires on a detainee's hands and told him he would be electrocuted if he fell while standing on a box.

— Former Spc. Jeremy Sivits of Hyndman, Pa., pleaded guilty in May 2004 to four counts for taking pictures of naked Iraqi prisoners being humiliated, including some of the photographs that triggered the Abu Ghraib scandal. He was sentenced to one year in prison.

— Former Spc. Roman Krol, of Randolph, Mass., admitted pouring water on naked detainees and forcing them to crawl around the floor. He also said he threw a foam football at them while they were handcuffed. Krol, who served in a military intelligence unit, was sentenced in February to 10 months in prison.

— Former Spc. Armin Cruz, of Plano, Texas, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and mistreating prisoners and was sentenced in September 2004 to eight months in prison. Cruz was part of the same military intelligence unit as Krol.

— Former Sgt. Javal Davis, Roselle, N.J., was sentenced to six months in prison after pleading guilty in February to assault, dereliction of duty and lying to Army investigators. The former sergeant admitted stepping on the hands and feet of handcuffed detainees and falling with his full weight on top of them.



Make of it what you will.

[Shadowkeeper]

Here's a very revealing article/interveiw on Lynndie England, again, make of it what you will...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...land-interview

[bopper]

so tough with their dogs. hey look, i can get a dog to bite a guy whose tired up. fucken dickless bitches.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Piper ↗

aw, all of the that followed or rather the - what can you do. i was asking valid questions. that's all. Rumsfeld resigned, the orders came from him or were okayed by him. why, when Bush said america didn't torture. who lied? like i said Bush didn't have to lie, because everyone knew that wasn't true anyway. I am not liberal, but i am human.
however, i had no problem when they tortured (probably water boarded) the guy at Guantanamo that proudly admitted fully to hurting and beheading and beheading Daniel Pearl.

As a soldier where do you draw the line though... Some say to refuse the order is better than commit torture, but who defines torture? Geneva defines waterboarding as torture, and after WW2 Japanese were executed for war crimes for waterboarding Americans... For that matter invading Iraq in the first place was Illegal under the Geneva convention that the US is supposedly bound to.... Technically everyone there is commiting a war crime.... As defined by Geneva.

I guess some war crimes are punishable, and some are not.

[Azimuth]

add to Shadowkeeper's list.

-Brig. General Janis Karpinski, commanding officer at the prison, was demoted to colonel on May 5, 2005, which also effectively ends her chances for future career advancement. In a BBC interview, Janis Karpinski said she is being made a scapegoat, and that the top U.S. commander for Iraq, Gen Ricardo Sanchez, should be asked what he knew about the abuse, as according to her, he said that prisoners are "like dogs". However, a spokesman for Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the Guantanamo prison and later commanded all detention operations, including Abu Ghraib, called Karpinski's allegations "categorically false", and said no directive to treat detainees "like dogs" was made at either Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib.

-Captain Carolyn Wood was head of the 519th Military Intelligence Battalion from Fort Bragg. In August 2002, nine interrogation techniques not approved by military doctrine or included in Army field manuals were added after Chris Mackey and his team turned over the detention unit in Bagram to the 519th Military Intelligence Battalion. Chris Mackey had trained with Wood before she got her command at Bagram. He says that while he was “gravely disappointed” when he found out about her changes to the interrogation rules, he understands what might have been going on. “After she took over, the stakes got very high,” he says. “We went from losing three or four soldiers a month to scores of them. She must have been under a tremendous amount of pressure.”“But there was horrible incompetence at the leadership and oversight level. People were aware of what we were doing because we were open. [The prison] was practically a Disney ride, with lots of higher-ups and officials coming through. But the common response we got was, Aren’t you kind of babying them?”

-Colonel Thomas Pappas was relieved of his command on May 13, 2005 after receiving nonjudicial punishment on May 9, 2005 for two instances of dereliction, including that of allowing dogs to be present during interrogations. He was fined $8000 under the provisions of Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (nonjudicial punishment). He also received a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR) which effectively ends his military career.