[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

If you reject the concept it may be a red herring, but it’s not a strawman- certainly not the “definition of a strawman”. You should read the definition of a strawman argument.

I know what a strawman argument is - it's misrepresenting something so you can more easily attack it. You called atheism a religion in itself, which is false, so you could more easily attack it with your arguments

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

In the case of atheism, the deity becomes man himself, and then eventually one man.

No. In Atheism, man rejects the very existence of deities - simply because they reject God, doesn't equate to "they become God" - it doesn't work that way. Atheism breaks the mental chains of being bound to something "divine" which they believe isn't even real - never was - and instead they choose something not faith-based to guide how they live their lives and see the world.

Our holy books were written by human beings in the iron age or even earlier when we didn't even have our pants on as a species yet. Why would we relegate ourselves to that when today we know so much better.

And if we're going to talk about morality, that's up to us. Since we seem to make endless awful decisions believing in God, I doubt it would be worse if everyone exercised logic & self-determination rather than revering the scribblings of a few desert dudes with vibrant imaginations.

Many atheists are humanists, which IMO is a respectable philosophy.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

If you reject the concept it may be a red herring, but it’s not a strawman- certainly not the “definition of a strawman”. You should read the definition of a strawman argument.

A religion is nothing more than making a state-like power structure out of a Faith. In the past, the church actually was the state. It wasn’t the Faith that committed the evils. It was the state that co-opted the Faith for their own power.

In the case of atheism, the deity becomes man himself, and then eventually one man. In the end, the power is state is the end goal, and those atheist states have been no less bloodthirsty than the ethereal god-based religions.

Everything you just said is a standard pre-programmed self defence of your cult( or other cults ).
Calling atheism a religion is just insane. There is no shugar coating it. Its like saying that non smoking is the best brand of cigarettes or that bacon is the best vegan food.
Theism = belief in a man made god
A - Theism = negates theism.
Its not a religio by definition.

Deism is a belief in a vague illdefined god.
An atheist could also be a deist, or a spiritualist...or a budhist etc.

I've had debates with religious cookies that lasted months and ended with the religious cookies deconverting. During he debates and discussions, i learned that this "atheism = religion" is just part of the standard programming. Most religious fundamentalists dont even know what the word means.


If you want to really understand what atheism is, just imagine that your god was never invented. What would happen then?
People would wake up, brush their teeth, go to work and then enjoy some free time before going to bed. Just like people do now. The only difference is that they dont believe in an ancient mythological book character.
In fact, you already are an atheist yourelf, when it comes to the tens of thousands of gods that you dont believe in. From a Muslim's or Hindu point of view, you are an atheist. You dont believe in a real god, you just believe in a silly story in a book.


Also, you keep using the word faith. Just so you know, faith is basically the definition of ignorance and stupididity. No reasonable human would take anything on faith. Faith( stupidity and gullibility) is required by all the religions for an obvious reason....liars need you to believe in their lies. The best way to do that is to define stupidity as a virtue, and then ask people to be stupid.

[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

I know what a strawman argument is - it's misrepresenting something so you can more easily attack it. You called atheism a religion in itself, which is false, so you could more easily attack it with your arguments

That’s not what a strawman argument is. A strawman is assigning an argument to your opponent that they never made so that you have an easier time arguing against their position. You may think that my position is a logical fallacy, perhaps a non-sequitur, but it’s not a strawman because I’m not saying that you or anyone else hold that position.

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

No. In Atheism, man rejects the very existence of deities - simply because they reject God, doesn't equate to "they become God" - it doesn't work that way. Atheism breaks the mental chains of being bound to something "divine" which they believe isn't even real - never was - and instead they choose something not faith-based to guide how they live their lives and see the world.

Our holy books were written by human beings in the iron age or even earlier when we didn't even have our pants on as a species yet. Why would we relegate ourselves to that when today we know so much better.

And if we're going to talk about morality, that's up to us. Since we seem to make endless awful decisions believing in God, I doubt it would be worse if everyone exercised logic & self-determination rather than revering the scribblings of a few desert dudes with vibrant imaginations.

Many atheists are humanists, which IMO is a respectable philosophy.

My original comment was that Atheism IS a church, like any other. To be more precise, I’m not saying that all atheists belong to the Church of Atheism, but a Church of Atheism absolutely does exist.

The self-reflective atheist is similar to the self-reflective Christian/Jew/Muslim/Buddhist-whatever. They hold their beliefs, and it doesn’t much affect the people around them. But, just as there are the self-reflective varieties of any belief system, there are also the evangelical types that insist on pushing their belief system and shitting on all others, like our leftist-media-NPC friend, Scorpion.

When the evangelical atheists do just like the evangelicals of Faith, it is no different than a theist Church. Mao and Stalin were no different than the radical Islamists or Crusading Christians- you will accept their belief system and worship the man, or you will die.

[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by ride ↗

Self-shredding any credibility you had up to this point.

Why would you think that your opinion of me matters in the slightest to me?

You seem to think more of yourself than you deserve.

[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Everything you just said is a standard pre-programmed self defence of your cult( or other cults ).
Calling atheism a religion is just insane. There is no shugar coating it. Its like saying that non smoking is the best brand of cigarettes or that bacon is the best vegan food.
Theism = belief in a man made god
A - Theism = negates theism.
Its not a religio by definition.

Deism is a belief in a vague illdefined god.
An atheist could also be a deist, or a spiritualist...or a budhist etc.

I've had debates with religious cookies that lasted months and ended with the religious cookies deconverting. During he debates and discussions, i learned that this "atheism = religion" is just part of the standard programming. Most religious fundamentalists dont even know what the word means.


If you want to really understand what atheism is, just imagine that your god was never invented. What would happen then?
People would wake up, brush their teeth, go to work and then enjoy some free time before going to bed. Just like people do now. The only difference is that they dont believe in an ancient mythological book character.
In fact, you already are an atheist yourelf, when it comes to the tens of thousands of gods that you dont believe in. From a Muslim's or Hindu point of view, you are an atheist. You dont believe in a real god, you just believe in a silly story in a book.


Also, you keep using the word faith. Just so you know, faith is basically the definition of ignorance and stupididity. No reasonable human would take anything on faith. Faith( stupidity and gullibility) is required by all the religions for an obvious reason....liars need you to believe in their lies. The best way to do that is to define stupidity as a virtue, and then ask people to be stupid.

The fact that you tried to (or think you did) convert others to atheism just proves that you’re an evangelical to your Church. Everything that you said in your opening paragraphs could be turned around and said directly back to you. Everything you say is a direct parroting of the neo-Marxist programming you get from your television. If CNN-BBC changes their position tomorrow, then the position you hold today will be memory-holed and you’ll assume the new one.


…and your post shows that you don’t understand the concept of Faith. Faith in our Creator is not a belief in Him in the absence of proof. I have experienced interaction with God. He has proven Himself to me. I just can’t take my experience and use it as proof to you. That’s baked into the pie in Faith. No one else can bring you to God. I hope you find Him and you eventually will, but that is between you and Him.



But, anyway, I don’t really care what you “think”. I am well aware that there are others here who lean liberal and who don’t have Faith, and it causes me no beef with them- because it is uniquely you who have taken it as a mission to CONTINUALLY shit on conservatives and the Faithful. It’s almost like you can’t help yourself. It’s almost like you’re an atheist… zealot.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

You may think that my position is a logical fallacy, perhaps a non-sequitur, but it’s not a strawman because I’m not saying that you or anyone else hold that position.

After re-reading your replies, you definitely committed a strawman - but I think I know why you think you didn't. You think the following statement is true:

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

The Church of Atheism just skips a step and goes straight to saying that man is God, then A man is God, and then proceed to trying to put the whole world under his thumb.

First of all there is no "Church of Atheism". That's strike 1 just of this quote. Strike 2 is saying Atheists think they're God. These are patently false statements - that is not a position that exists and would make zero sense to someone calling themself an Atheist. You used these non-existent positions to make your argument easier. Hence, it's a strawman argument. If you can't see that, I'm not holding your hand any further. In your defense, perhaps you actually thought it was true and the mistake was not intentional. Either way, it's a strawman.

[WonderMomma]

I hate talking about religion! But here I go anyway.

Part of why I am atheist is because I don't believe in the very concept of church and following others around all in the name of some higher power I am expected to apply blind faith to. I have been there, done that for the first half of my life. Having said that, I am happy for anyone who says they have the proof they need to believe. That's great, for them. I don't have the same experiences.

I have seen more evidence proving that gods don't exist than I have that they do. But that doesn't have me going around door to door or running around the internet telling religious people that what they believe, is wrong. You do you and if religion brings you peace and comfort, that's awesome.

There couldn't be a bigger piece of evidence, for me, than religion being based on "creationism". That's a perfect word for religion itself. I don't believe that intentions in the creation of religion were ever truly pure. It is all about control, conformity, containment, indoctrination and to a degree, mental enslavement. Some people may need that kind of stuff in their life but not me.

I have never had an athiest shove their beliefs down my throat but many religious persons have. That is a part of religion, in and of itself, spreading "the message" and that also, IMO, is by design. A part of atheism is the freedom of having that burden bestowed upon me and the freedom of enduring it from others. I don't want to live life telling other people how to live theirs and I don't want others doing it to me.

I am, indeed, more a humanist than I am anything else. Everyone on the planet has being human in common. For me, that is the easiest, most logical place to start when dealing with anyone instead of slapping labels all over them based on how they look, what god they believe in, what political affiliations they hold or who they love. To me that just makes things complicated especially when all of those things have no direct impact on my ability to survive or my ability to have a civil conversation with anyone. It's all about actual behavior. Not preconceived notions of behavior based on labels or stereotypes. See human, be human.

[kellyhound]

Russian/Ukraine War Discussion Thread

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[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

I hate talking about religion! But here I go anyway.

Part of why I am atheist is because I don't believe in the very concept of church and following others around all in the name of some higher power I am expected to apply blind faith to. I have been there, done that for the first half of my life. Having said that, I am happy for anyone who says they have the proof they need to believe. That's great, for them. I don't have the same experiences.

I have seen more evidence proving that gods don't exist than I have that they do. But that doesn't have me going around door to door or running around the internet telling religious people that what they believe, is wrong. You do you and if religion brings you peace and comfort, that's awesome.

There couldn't be a bigger piece of evidence, for me, than religion being based on "creationism". That's a perfect word for religion itself. I don't believe that intentions in the creation of religion were ever truly pure. It is all about control, conformity, containment, indoctrination and to a degree, mental enslavement. Some people may need that kind of stuff in their life but not me.

I have never had an athiest shove their beliefs down my throat but many religious persons have. That is a part of religion, in and of itself, spreading "the message" and that also, IMO, is by design. A part of atheism is the freedom of having that burden bestowed upon me and the freedom of enduring it from others. I don't want to live life telling other people how to live theirs and I don't want others doing it to me.

I am, indeed, more a humanist than I am anything else. Everyone on the planet has being human in common. For me, that is the easiest, most logical place to start when dealing with anyone instead of slapping labels all over them based on how they look, what god they believe in, what political affiliations they hold or who they love. To me that just makes things complicated especially when all of those things have no direct impact on my ability to survive or my ability to have a civil conversation with anyone. It's all about actual behavior. Not preconceived notions of behavior based on labels or stereotypes. See human, be human.

We’re actually closer in belief than you’d think.

I’m very much of-Faith, but I don’t have a “religion”. I do believe that our Creator is the one who Spoke to Abraham, but I think that most of what the Jews, Christians and Muslims did with it after that point was more about a creation of state than it was about worship and enlightenment. The Church, by and large, has been little more than men standing up and saying “Hey, guys, God had to step out for a minute, but he left me in charge.” I’m skeptical of any church just as I’m skeptical of any government.

I’m genuinely surprised, though, that you have never experienced an atheist trying to shove their beliefs down your throat. Perhaps it is because you are an atheist? I doubt Christians view other Christians evangelizing as “Bible-thumping”.

My experience is that atheism has so fallen into fashion that, for many, it’s like vegans and cross-fitters not being able to help themselves- they just have to (repeatedly) declare that there is no God and that their understanding of that perceived fact makes them morally and intellectually superior to you. I don’t deny that there are MANY of Faith who do the exact same thing but, again, that’s the Church talking, not the Faith- hence my position that Atheism (big A) is a church unto itself.

We’ve seen big-A Atheism take on the same Crusades as the theistic Churches of history, and it’s proven to be even more deadly.

But, I’ll leave that there… until Scorpion goes off on his next inevitable left-media virtue-signal and decides to shit on those of us who are conservative or of Faith again. Sorry for the derail.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

.

I didn't want to reply in this thread since it's getting off-topic, but damn, you keep spewing illogical garbage so I can't ignore it.

I’m very much of-Faith, but I don’t have a “religion”.

Thats a lie.
If your god is a book character, then you are part of a religion.

I do believe that our Creator is the one who Spoke to Abraham

And that is stupid by definition and rules out the possibility for any real god. A real god would not do anything as stupid as speaking his super important message to 1 guy, in one language, in one tribe and pretending that it's the "messge for the whole world" and "its super important message". It's obviously bullshit.
God would have to be more intelligent than an average person. I assume you agree with that...right? Or is your god more stupid than an average human?
If god is more intelligent than a human, then god would come up with a better way to spread his message to the world than any human ever could. Now, here is my solution to the "spreading the super important message to the world"
1) God speaks to all the people, all at once, in their respective languages, therefore eliminating any possible translation errors.
2) All done, a real God doesn't need any further steps.

Now, compare that to your cult god.
1) He whispers his super important message to 1 guy, in one language, in one tribe.
2) That guy spends his lifetime, wandering around deserts, never getting beyond the confines of Middle East.
3) The guy dies. 99.99% of the world still doesnt know about the word of god.
4) Centuries go by and another guy comes along and claims to speak for god.
5) He spends his lifetime spreading the word, and never reaches further than the few tribes in the Middle East.
6) The Roman Empire sees how useful the "word of god" is for controlling the masses and starts to spread it within its borders.
7) The worlds largest and most violent cult is born.
8) The world of god is spread through coercion and brutal violence for thousands of years.
9) The word of god still hasn't reached most of the world and numerous translations have botched shit up.
10) Other men want in on the action and start adding sequels to the books. Each sequel claims to be the only truth...yet, are obviously lies.
11) It's the year 2023, God's word still hasn't spread to the whole planet and the parts that have, have split the cult into countless conflicting factions. Still, noone believes any of the "gods word" without coersion, indoctrination or violence.

Hmm, now, let's think. Is the cult god real or not? Hmm. I bet no.
Even worse. The cult god uses heaven and hell as stick and carrot to herd sheep into their lots. It's exactly like we do to animals. Try with a carrot or a cookie. If it doesn't work, use a stick. It's humiliating that there are people who can't see through the obvious attempts to train people like animals.

But, shit gets even worse. Your cult god is self-contradictory, which makes its existence impossible.
Hell is incompatible with an all loving god. If a loving god exists, hell doesnt.
Perfect god would also have perfect creation. It wouldn't need some god damn quality control here on earth. I hate when religious nutters use arguments like "well, this earth is a testing ground, and god tests us." and then immediately follow that by saying that god is perfect and all knowing. All knowing god would already know that we failed the test and would not even commence with it. A perfect god wouldnt create something that needs testing. An omnipresent god would not be able to separate himself from us. An intelligent god would not spread his word by using an unnescessary mouthpiece.
And on and on it goes. The only way you can be religious is if you never actually read your cult books yourself, and if you never actually think about the cult doctrine.

I’m genuinely surprised, though, that you have never experienced an atheist trying to shove their beliefs down your throat.

Im surprised that you are surprised.
Atheists dont shove their beliefs down anyones throats because they dont have "atheist beliefs". Atheism is an answer to a single question. It has no content. No beliefs.
Do you believe in Santa Claus? How much time to you spend shoving your anti-Santa beliefs down other peoples throats?
Answer that question and you see how riddiculous your argument is. Im from Estonia. The least religious country in the world. I can tell you that noone here speaks against religion, noone speaks for it either. Its not a topic. Religion here is like belief in Santa Claus. Its a boring topic that doesnt come up. Contrary to what yoru cult leaders claim, children arent taught to "hate god" in atheist families. Children arent simply indoctrinated in the first place. Noone talks to them about religion and noone tells them to hate it. Once they have grown up a bit( in their teens ) they can read the books themselves and make up their own mind. The reality is, that 8-9 year old is already smart enough to see through the bullshit of religions. This is why you were indoctrinated as a child, and you never got to chose your religion.

We’ve seen big-A Atheism take on the same Crusades as the theistic Churches of history, and it’s proven to be even more deadly.

I wonder in what parallel reality that took place? I've studdied history and im a history fan in genral, but i have never heard of any Atheist crusades. Strange. Its almost as if you are repeating your preprogrammed cult statemens( like the ones from W.L.Craig, or R.Comfort )