[Guns N' Coffee]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

It’s even worse; the ‘veterans’ sitting behind putin weren’t even born yet.. what an epic fail right

Putin is traditionally seated in between World War II veterans on Victory Day, which celebrates the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany in 1945. This year, however, he was seated in between former members of the Soviet secret police. It has never been the custom that only WWII veterans are seated in the stands, so I do not know what you are trying to demonstrate.

[Guns N' Coffee]

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...y-day-message/

During the Cold War, Kremlinologists would famously attempt to decipher the mood within the Soviet elite by studying the seating plans on public holidays for hints of who was politically in favor and who was potentially on the way out.

This half-forgotten art is now once again in demand as analysts seek insights into the equally impenetrable Putin regime. A look at the seating arrangements during this week’s Victory Day parade in Moscow provides some indication that despite the military setbacks of the past fifteen months, Vladimir Putin is doubling down on his goal of subjugating Ukraine.

At first glance, Russia’s annual Victory Day parade on May 9 was a non-event at best and an embarrassment at worst. Putin’s short speech held no surprises, while the presence of just one antique tank during the military parade itself could only be interpreted as evidence of the dire state of the Russian armed forces.

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the event was the identity of the people selected to sit directly alongside Putin on the Red Square podium. While Victory Day marks the Soviet contribution to the defeat of Adolf Hitler, neither of the elderly gentlemen sitting alongside Putin actually fought against Nazi Germany. Instead, they were both veterans of the Soviet security services who had respectively participated in efforts to suppress Ukraine’s independence movement and crush Czechoslovakia’s 1960s anti-Soviet uprising.

To Putin’s right sat the 98-year-old Yuri Dvoikin, who volunteered for the Red Army during World War II but never actually made it to the front lines. Instead, after training as a sniper in 1944, he was dispatched by the Soviet secret police to Lviv in western Ukraine, where his job was to assist in the liquidation of the Ukrainian nationalist underground. The campaign against Ukraine’s independence movement was particularly brutal, with the Soviet authorities employing terror tactics and large-scale deportations. Although the Ukrainians were able to inflict significant casualties on Soviet forces, they were ultimately defeated by the early 1950s.

On Putin’s left sat the 88-year-old Gennady Zaitsev, who, like Dvoikin, never served in what Russia still refers to as the Great Patriotic War. He was drafted into the Red Army in 1953 and joined the KGB six years later after completing his military service. In 1968, he helped suppress the Prague Spring by, among other things, capturing the Czechoslovak Ministry of Internal Affairs. In the 1970s, KGB chief Yuri Andropov appointed Zaitsev to lead the elite Alfa anti-terrorist unit.

Putin did not have to sit between these two former secret policemen. Indeed, on Victory Day of all days, it would have been far more natural to appear alongside veterans of the war against Hitler’s Germany. It is therefore reasonable to assume that Putin’s choice of neighbors was a deliberate and symbolic move.

For many within the Russian and Ukrainian elites, Putin’s unspoken Victory Day message would have been crystal clear. The Russian dictator was signaling that despite widespread criticism of the Federal Security Service and its bungling role in the invasion of Ukraine, he continues to value his secret police and sees them as the linchpin of his authoritarian regime.

Putin was also signaling to Ukrainians and domestic critics of his invasion that he is willing to do whatever it takes to win. Soviet forces committed innumerable crimes in their suppression of the Ukrainian nationalist movement during the 1940s and 1950s. In 1968, they had no qualms about crushing a country that, like today’s Ukraine, sought to go its own way. By sitting alongside decorated veterans of these two criminal Soviet campaigns, Putin was indicating his approval of their actions and his readiness to embrace similar methods.

The good news is that Putin does not currently appear capable of replicating the bloody Soviet-era crackdowns in western Ukraine and Czechoslovakia. This was all too evident on Victory Day, with the lone T-34 tank rumbling across Red Square serving as the perfect metaphor for Russia’s reduced military might after suffering catastrophic losses in Ukraine. However, the Russian dictator remains defiant and is clearly keen to signal that he has no intention of backing down.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

minority opinions

…

if more than a few people disagree with you then that's an "echo chamber"

The fact you would classify my perspective as ‘minority opinions’ (even though this perspective is shared by presidential candidates, political activists, academics, veterans, even the pentagon, and so on), and in other threads even attacking people sharing that perspective is what creates and reinforces a pro-war echo chamber.

Think about it; most (if not all) of you guys believe the pentagon leaks are fake because they directly contradict nearly everything you have been saying to each other since basically the start of the conflict. You have your version of the truth which you are willing to verbally attack people over. Everything else is ‘Russian disinformation’ and everybody else is “willfully dishonest, lazy, delusional”.

Again, it doesn’t affect me personally or anything. I even might soon be assisting in the transport of Ukrainian refugees to Western Europe. I met some Americans who are doing that (they share my views on a lot of aspects, but their ‘we still need to help the people’-perspective is what inspires me to want to help as well). They not only help women and kids, but also save young men (who don’t want any part in the war) near the Polish border and bring them to countries that don’t ‘extradite’ them to Ukraine; like Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. That is my way of protesting because it saves lives and also more refugees are bad for the European economy

[Faust]

Originally Posted by Guns N' Coffee ↗

Putin is traditionally seated in between World War II veterans on Victory Day, which celebrates the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany in 1945. This year, however, he was seated in between former members of the Soviet secret police. It has never been the custom that only WWII veterans are seated in the stands, so I do not know what you are trying to demonstrate.

A lot of articles created that impression though

[luc21]

There is no limit to cynicism.

A father shoots patriotic videos with his sick daughter on May 9, dressing her up in uniform.

[luc21]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

That is my way of protesting because it saves lives and also more refugees are bad for the European economy

I would like to say you are an idiot.

If you know anything about the European economy. So you would know that Ukrainians are very hardworking people. And they traveled to various countries in Europe long before the war.

Anyway,
just keep protesting. Europe will have benefits.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by luc21 ↗

I would like to say you are an idiot.

If you know anything about the European economy. So you would know that Ukrainians are very hardworking people. And they traveled to various countries in Europe long before the war.

Anyway,
just keep protesting. Europe will have benefits.

I never said Ukrainians are not hardworking people, refugees in general aren’t good for any economy unless they can be exploited (which is bad and which I disapprove of). So unless they are going to pay for their own housing, food, and so on, Ukrainian refugees will not be good for the economy. Which is fine with me. If they get jobs and pay taxes then sure, but I don’t think the endgame for Europe is to have millions of Ukrainians working in every country because Ukraine turned into Syria 2.0
Anyway this is getting way off-topic, but thanks for insulting me because that lowers the chance of our posts getting deleted

[luc21]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Anyway this is getting way off-topic, but thanks for insulting me because that lowers the chance of our posts getting deleted

Don`t cry please. Your intention is sick. Helping people to make someone worst.

disgusting

[Faust]

Originally Posted by luc21 ↗

Don`t cry please. Your intention is sick. Helping people to make someone worst.

disgusting

Europeans elected leaders, who helped create a certain situation. This situation led to European civilians from Ukraine being conscripted and dying by the tens if not hundreds of thousands, at least according to the pentagon and several official leaders ex-presidents or president-elects, and so on. Even if you can only help a few civilians get out, that is still lives that are saved. A nice side effect is some damage to the European economy. (Not the primary objective though)

Also, if my government would be sending those civilians back to Ukraine to die in some war which they tried to get away from, I myself will hide them in my house if needed

[luc21]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Also, if my government would be sending those civilians back to Ukraine to die in some war which they tried to get away from, I myself will hide them in my house if needed

Hmm...vivid imagination.

night night Faust