[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by kellyhound ↗

https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/wh...it-atrocities/

Excellent article.

However, the history of atrocity-prone armies has a caution for the architects of murder too. In a study of mass violence in Roman warfare, historian Gabriel Baker notes that while Roman mass violence against civilians could be strategically effective when the Romans were already clearly winning, in cases where the Romans were facing difficulties—precisely the sort of frustrating circumstances that often lead modern armies to employ mass violence—it was (at best) generally ineffective and often counterproductive, hardening resolve and extending conflicts. Japanese mass violence in the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere had the same effect, hardening resistance to Japanese occupation and sapping Japan’s anti-Western, imperialist propaganda’s effectiveness. It seems likely that Russian atrocities will also be militarily ineffective, hardening Ukrainian resolve to resist and international resolve to sanction Russia and support Ukraine.

[WonderMomma]

Drafted citizens from Tsimlyansk and Volgodonsk...

[duntez]

[QUOTE=WhiskeyOutpost;7683995]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

I don't think of you as a terrorist. But this is why extreme reluctance to accept Russian war crimes is a red flag to me: Russian troops in previous wars aren't known for their courtesy or adherence to rules of war. This is well known and evident from previous conflicts, especially Chechnya in the 90's and Syria. Yes that was the 90's and not now, but it looks like not a ton has changed. The Russian military of today has proven itself to be an undisciplined, disorganized, poorly led force for all to see since February. I'm actually shocked at the level of this. Plus, low morale. They know it's only a matter of time until they get killed or wounded just like the guys around them. Plus they don't get rotated as often as Ukrainian units, battle fatigue. That mindset is a breeding ground for war crimes. Example: Vietnam. We Americans committed many war crimes over there and why you think Russia is somehow exempt from this is pretty wild to me.

Ukrainians have committed multiple war crimes throughout this war, many of which I posted here, including the one where they just straight up executed like 4-6 captured Russians on that road and they plugged an almost dead one in the head. It's truly bizarre to me that you can't imagine Russians doing the same, it's war. It makes no sense. I blame propaganda and the lying game that Russia has perfected over the years, they're literally known for it and give any western government a run for their money in that realm.

Americans are good people too but it didn't stop our war crimes in our past. Just because the average Russian is likely a good person doesn't mean the army as a whole is going to act like angels when they've captured a Ukrainian they've been told is a Nazi Bandera subhuman piece of shit. Ukrainians are proud of their country and merely defending themselves, which in itself is a rationale for war crimes. Your ignorance of these concepts is taxing, duntez. That's why we don't get along on here mostly.

Like I said previously I dont have problems of accepting Russian terrorism against civilians if proven. Those who responsible deserve punishment according to their crimes. Im not accepting atrocities done by them whenever IMO its Ukrainian goverment clearly using the situation and than add some to spread lies, to get western society reaction that would trigger approval of more munition supply and money, fuel hate and fear.
US war in Vietnam is not even close to this war. Two different cultures, languages, has nothing in common and than we have Ukraine and Russia, millions of mix families, millions lives on both sides, sharing history, culture language and so on. Brother vs brother, kids vs parents... several generations born in one country.. I dont say there is no crime on Rus side at all...im sure there is. But im talking about Bucha, Izum and Gostomel. Even example with Rome empire doesn't cut it and bad example. Even if US went to war with Canada while it would be really close example but still not quite.
Russian troops in 1st Chechnya are the ones who were getting slaughtered overthere. Most of them were 18-22 years old kids vs those whose dream was to try and cut somebodies head of. Yes war makes you numb and for every friend who's head was cut of you want to pay them back equally. Unlike those who was in charge in Chechnya I dont remember seeing videos of Chechen civilians being dismembered by Russian troops on a daily basis, taking them into slavery or as organ donors and so on. But again, maybe you know about those videos than post them please and ill agree with you.
And again im only talking about atrocities in Bucha, Izum and Gostomel, when civilians were executed in 100s. Now this last video of a fallen body and than 2 secs second video I said its BS initially, that with the comments and all I started to have doubts...ofcause I dont like the fact that its Russians who did it, what I dont have a right to be suspicious about it? I still think that uniform alone is not a prove, I still think its weird they cut this videos into short video clips...do I have a right to doubt this video? And just for this you throwing stones at me.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

I THINK Duntez immerses himself in pro Rus propaganda and those channels are looking to "win" the information war, at all costs. His reaction to even possible Russian war crimes is a big indication. Huge red flag.

like I said "of cause there is". You dont listen

[duntez]

[QUOTE=scorpion9;7684000]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

"I’m from there and for me it’s hard to accept this type of atrocities done by Russia."

This is exactly what Germans said at the end of the second world war too. They refused to believe that their soldiers would commit genocide and kill civilians.

I can tell you that the way russians are "supposedly" torturing and killing civilians and POW's is exactly the same way as they actually killed civilians during the Soviet occupation. People pretend that the Soviet Occupation was thousands of years ago and it is a distant memory for Russians and its neighbours.
It isnt.
Putin was alive and operating as an agent when these tortures and "interrogations" took place. This is fresh history. My aunt who is 98 years old lived through all that. Russian generals who make decisions now...havent learned any new tricks. They are still the same people that they were during the soviet occupation.

What ukrainians describe in Ukraine...is exactly from the Russian KGB/FSB playbook.
Also, you know...for a fact...that Russian military has significant number of prisoners in its ranks and they have very little oversight. Do you really think that untrained prisoners are gona follow the Geneva convention or disdinguish between civilians and soldiers?
The amount of theft and stealing taking place in Ukraine is on a grand scale. The alcohol abuse is rampant.

Torture during interrogation is the norm...not the exception.
Like the guy who was brutally murdered(had his balls cut off and dragged behind a vehicle ) - we only know about it because the soldiers broke a number one rule in Russian army - no phones and cameras.
Imagine if most Russian soldiers had cameras?
How much more of shit like that we would see.

There are even Russian protesters who were tortured in Moscow and other Russian cities. Russian police was supposed to "look into the allegations" but im sure nothing came of it.


Refusal to believe in attrocities is what allows attrocities to happen.

You missed the point. I said it last week and weeks before. Its stupid to deny the fact that Russians doing some bad things to civilians, there are crazy sick people out there. Your example with Wagners is correct I totally agree and see it the same way. By atrocities I meant Bucha, Gostomel and Izum, when civilians are executed in hundred, IN ONE PLACE. Example of Germany, I can see why it makes sense to you, but dont forget that Hitlers doctrine was to eliminate those people, they were pigs and dirty jewish, jypsys and so on. You are referring to concentration camps when German citizens were taking there to see with their own eyes. Just for comparing Hitlers Germany with Russia is quite sick to me. For numerous reasons. Concentration camp in Belarus for kids whose blood was used for infusions for German soldiers alone make it a bad example. After all its your opinion, so least I can do is accept it and move on.

[scorpion9]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFoota..._on_ukrainian/

Interesting footage, around 12:20, you can see russians executing wounded soldiers( bottom right , and later the top one is finished off too I think )

[WonderMomma]

Honestly... is this shit really necessary? Take it to PM or find a way to talk like adults. Or go to the water cooler. It's getting awfully personal.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFoota..._on_ukrainian/

Interesting footage, around 12:20, you can see russians executing wounded soldiers( bottom right , and later the top one is finished off too I think )

agreed. its a crime - wounded, surrendered and unarmed.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Roosta ↗

It's necessary when he supports the Russian war machine that are killing innocent Men Women & Children with striking non military targets & this is more than obvious when the bridge got hit & the ruskies started shelling towns & playgrounds that you just posted a vid about !

I understand, it can be frustrating. I'm just trying to warn you that it's just not going to go well when Kelly sees all of this. You guys can talk shit on each others mom's all you want in the water cooler, they just don't like that personal of stuff here in the war section.

Now me:

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

I understand, it can be frustrating. I'm just trying to warn you that it's just not going to go well when Kelly sees all of this. You guys can talk shit on each others mom's all you want in the water cooler, they just don't like that personal of stuff here in the war section.

Now me:

I am stating FACTS !