WASHINGTON D.C. | Commercial Jet vs Military Helicopter Over Potomac

[kellyhound]

Some air traffic control scanner before the incident.

[kellyhound]

[akham]

Originally Posted by HIGHTECHDUDE

FlightAware Track Log

That URL shows the current flight of the airframe, and has now moved on from the accident flight to the next scheduled flight (which, unsurprisingly, has been cancelled).

Pls replace with this URL which refers specifically to the accident flight:

https://www.flightaware.com/live/fli...328Z/KICT/KDCA

[akham]

Apparently an image of the accident helo, UH-60L 00-26860.

[akham]

Originally Posted by UsedArtwork

Why would the military helicopter be going so fast

According to ADS-B data the helicopter was not travelling particularly quickly. (*)

behind a commercial plane?

The helicopter did not travel behind the commercial jet. It was supposed to, and if it did there would not have been an accident.

It seems like it was aiming for it.

Why do you say that?

(*) We need to be careful when interpreting the flight path of the military helicopter on flight tracking sites because it was not transmitting a GPS position (as most other flights do). The position of the helicopter was estimated based on differential time of arrival of the ADS-B signals (this is called MLAT), which is not especially accurate and why the flight path looks so jagged on tracking sites.

[akham]

Attached is a more comprehensive audio recording of the ATC traffic (source: blantonl on RadioReference):

ATC audio with PAT-25's communications with DCA Tower on the discrete Helo to Tower frequency. Note that you cannot hear Blue Streak 5342 because they are on the regular Tower Frequency.

The helos and the jets were on separate frequencies but with the same tower controller.

https://archives.broadcastify.com/44...1903-44114.mp3

• At 5:41 mark 5342 is given instructions for circling to 33.
• At 6:45 mark PAT-25 reports Memorial
• At 7:06 mark tower gives PAT-25 traffic advisory about 5342 and PAT-25 reports traffic in sight and requests visual separation
• At 8:12 mark tower asks PAT-25 if they have the CRJ in sight. PAT-25 again reports traffic in sight and again requests visual separation.
• At 8:28 mark, crash occurs, exclamations, go arounds issued

Also attached is the relevant part of the Washington DC area Helicopter Route Map (source: FAA/Skyvector) showing helo routes in the area. From this it is apparent that helicopter traffic routinely follows the path that PAT25 took.

PAT25 was following ROUTE 1 southbound. The "Memorial" reporting point referred to in the ATC audio is the ble solid triangle marked "Memorial Bridge" on ROUTE 1 north of the Pentagon.

[CombatVet]

So I live less than a mile from where this occurred and I am also a licensed pilot. First let me say that this airspace is amongst the most controlled in the US, if not the world.

The CRJ was cleared for RW1 which is the most common approach into the longer of the runways at DCA. If you've ever flown into DCA it's an approach that basically follows the Potomac River.

JB Bolling base is located to the SSE of DCA and helicopters are often given clearance to shoot across the river and instructed to maintain visuals on traffic. Due to the location of Bolling, almost all of the air traffic is either landing on RW1 or taking off of RW1 and it's relatively easy to maintain visuals on air traffic.

Shortly before the crash, ATC asks the CRJ if they can switch to RW33 which is a shorter runway and runs from SE to NW. This change would have required the CRJ to do "right slip approach". Not a huge adjustment but something that only smaller jets could be able to do safely.

That change placed the airliner a little further north than usual. Usually the helo traffic from Bolling is instructed to quickly cross the Potomac and the responsibility is largely theirs to keep an eye on the traffic to DCA (which is why they asked if they had a visual)

The jet and the UH60 though are NOT on the same frequency and it's unlikely the UH60 was aware that the CRJ's runway (and approach) changed.

My suspicion (it's still early into the investigation) is that we are going to find that several things came together at the wrong time but I doubt that any sort of "pilot error" is responsible.

I had 2 friends ive known most of my life on the CRJ returning from KS and am still in shock that this happened.

[z3r01]

Originally Posted by CombatVet

So I live less than a mile from where this occurred and I am also a licensed pilot. First let me say that this airspace is amongst the most controlled in the US, if not the world.

The CRJ was cleared for RW1 which is the most common approach into the longer of the runways at DCA. If you've ever flown into DCA it's an approach that basically follows the Potomac River.

JB Bolling base is located to the SSE of DCA and helicopters are often given clearance to shoot across the river and instructed to maintain visuals on traffic. Due to the location of Bolling, almost all of the air traffic is either landing on RW1 or taking off of RW1 and it's relatively easy to maintain visuals on air traffic.

Shortly before the crash, ATC asks the CRJ if they can switch to RW33 which is a shorter runway and runs from SE to NW. This change would have required the CRJ to do "right slip approach". Not a huge adjustment but something that only smaller jets could be able to do safely.

That change placed the airliner a little further north than usual. Usually the helo traffic from Bolling is instructed to quickly cross the Potomac and the responsibility is largely theirs to keep an eye on the traffic to DCA (which is why they asked if they had a visual)

The jet and the UH60 though are NOT on the same frequency and it's unlikely the UH60 was aware that the CRJ's runway (and approach) changed.

My suspicion (it's still early into the investigation) is that we are going to find that several things came together at the wrong time but I doubt that any sort of "pilot error" is responsible.

I had 2 friends ive known most of my life on the CRJ returning from KS and am still in shock that this happened.

once the helicopter pilot was given Visual Flight Rules, it was his job and responsibility to create the separation. unfortunately he didnt create that and ultimately caused the crash.

[z3r01]

he was told multiple times about the traffic which he acknowledged. I think he saw traffic behind the jet involved

[Yanni]

Originally Posted by CombatVet

I doubt that any sort of "pilot error" is responsible.

literally any time two aircraft make contact with each other in the air, there was "pilot error" involved.