[akham]

Originally Posted by William May ↗

You fancy-dancy kids today!! Back in MY day, all we had was a little monkey on a chain in the cockpit, and if he started shitting, we were too fast and too low.

Why would you chain up your flight engineer, that's mean!

[Hogmann]

Originally Posted by akham ↗

Here's partial ADS-B data for the N81VN approach into KMLC on 2024-06-20 when they reportedly burst a tire.

[

365kts G/S at 9275ft! Don’t know what the wind speed was at 9000ft (trying to get historical data from NOAA) but what is the chance they had a 110kt tail wind to comply with the max 250kts IAS below 10kft?

299kts G/S at 3550ft (pressure alt, about 2,700ft above field elevation) approx. 16NM from the field.

245kts G/S at 2575ft (pressure alt, about 1800 above field) approx. 8.7NM from the field.

Shame I don’t (yet) have data closer to ground, but looks a bit hot to me! Guessing they might have had a bit of energy to disperse on the rwy!!!

100kts tailwind from the east in June? Never happen.
In the winter from the west, possibly.

Never-ending Captain Poop. That's Captain HotDog

"When I get high I get high on speed" opening line from a Crue song

[Hogmann]

I'm still going with the guy was coming in fast and high. Probably had engines at idle. Pretty close to a gliding approach. Probably shifted his aim point closer to the threshold to account for anticipated float. But by the time he got to the runway he was out of energy and unable to arrest the descent. Lands hard well short of the touchdown zone.

The sequence of events after....?
Gear collapse, brake or steering issue?
Plane departs the runway left main departs the plane.

Unrepaired or undiscovered damage from previous landing issue is possible. A part 91 operation and they can get anyone with a mechanic license to fix it. Not as much oversight as part 135 or 91k.

[akham]

The deceased pilot has been named as 78 year old (!) Joie Vitosky. His Airman's Certificate is attached.

I'm outside the US so my knowledge of aviation law over there isn't great, but I'm surprised to see an ATPL with a second class medical. I know the accident flight wasn't Part 135, but I was under the impression ATPL requires first class medical (it does where I flew).

He apparently was a flight instructor at Southwest.

In comments to media, his family claims he saved the lives of people on board and had perfect health, including perfect vision.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nation_desktop

The claim about him having perfect vision is factually incorrect, as shown by his Airman's Certificate which stipulated glasses were required. He only had a 2nd class medical rather than the 1st class usually held by ATPL pilots, but the 2nd class was sufficient for the accident flight (commercial rather than airline). However, I would have thought that he would get a 1st class if he could?

[Hogmann]

He would have had to have a first class medical at some point. But over 40y/o the First Class Medical only lasts for 6 months and requires an EKG every 12. It's not worth the expense getting the First Class Medical if it's not required for your operations.

Perfect eyesight? He's wearing glasses in the photo in the newspaper article. Never mind the limitation on the medical.
Does that shirt say "Vince Neal aviation"?

[akham]

Originally Posted by Hogmann ↗

It's not worth the expense getting the First Class Medical if it's not required for your operations.

Fair point.

My previous post is an example of what happens when research is done part-way through a post and I forget to update what I've already written - it starts out with me thinking its required (due to ATPL) and later I figure out its not required for commercial, rather than airline, ops. Oops.

[William May]

Originally Posted by akham ↗

Why would you chain up your flight engineer, that's mean!

Because he would bite the fuck out of you if you didn't. He was a MEAN bastard!

[akham]

Originally Posted by Hogmann ↗

Have you ever heard of a landing gear collapse that wasn't first precipitated by a gear unsafe warning or very hard touchdown?

We have now!

[William May]

Yes, it appears when the gear was reinstalled after the earlier landing accident, it was not installed correctly. They put the lock pin bolt in, but it was actually forward of the lockpin location on the actual pin, so was NOT holding it in position. This was apparently noticed by a mechanic during an inspection between that first event, and this second one, when he noted that it took a lot of grease to fill up the cavity. But that wouldn't have been grounds for pulling the gear. His assumption was probably that they just didn't do a thorough lube on it, when they put it back in. So the fault is still with the initial mechanic, not the guy who greased it and noticed that. (Sharp guy to pay attention to how much grease he was putting in, however. There is NOT a lot of access in that area, and you can just barely get a grease gun into position to pump grease into the fitting.)
So the whole situation rests on the first mechanic, who pulled the gear, did a mag particle inspection of the struts, and then reinstalled them, but incorrectly.

A much bigger item to me, was the sequence of events AFTER the accident. Everyone on board was unconscious after the impact. Vince Neal's girlfriend was the first to wake up. THE R/H ENGINE WAS STILL RUNNING, BUT SHE PULLED THE EMER EXIT, WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENGINE INLET, GOT OUT WITH HER 2 DOGS, AND THEN WENT BACK IN AND GOT HER GIRLFRIEND OUT AS WELL! She is ONE TOUGH CHICK! to have actually done that! That action put her IN FRONT OF A RUNNING JET ENGINE, at a distance of only about 18" away from the inlet! If you ever talk about steel balls, AND a titanium backbone, that is a woman that had BOTH! Her name is Rain Andreani. It should ALSO be noted she had 5 broken ribs at the time!

[akham]

And the seriously injured FO was trapped in the cockpit for more than 2 hours!