[horsecs]

oops I mean duct tape

[keating]

was it at night ? very hard to workout height, should have pulled up when warning came.

[deanmine]

Originally Posted by keating ↗

was it at night ? very hard to workout height, should have pulled up when warning came.

from what i understand, its possible to not know up down left right etc etc at some point.... bad weather can make the head spin....driving a car is in a 2 deminsianl world.... plane ... 4 i guess

[Desensitisation]

Originally Posted by jumpingjames69 ↗

rubbish inept pilots

Don't be too quick to judge them. You try flying something that big, with blind instruments, at night. Good luck, is all I say.

[FNAL]

Originally Posted by jumpingjames69 ↗

rubbish inept pilots

Don't be an ignorant jackass, it's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about so let me explain.

If all the static ports were blocked:

-Your altimeter is stuck at whatever altitude it was blocked and wont move

-Your vertical speed indicator will show no climb or descent, be stuck at zero

-Autopilot systems are fucked since they get erroneous information and try to correct which makes things worse

-Your airspeed indicator (which uses both the pitot tube and the static ports) will only indicate correctly at the same altitude the port was blocked. So it essentially works like a reverse altimeter, the higher you go, the lower your airspeed will read. So that could be why in the CVR, the pilots were confused because they showed they were in a climbing attitude but the airspeed was decreasing. When you cross reference that with no vertical speed or accurate altimeter readings, you start to lose situation awareness very quick.

An instrument that gives false information is worse than one that gives no indications. Considering it was at night and over water (not sure if they were in the clouds or not), you can also fall victim to several visual illusions:

Featureless Terrain: You have no idea where the ground is or the horizon. You think they could just look down and see the water and pull up but it is just a black void.

Black Hole Approach: Piggybacking with featureless terrain but if you are on an approach with no reference in your peripheral vision, you might think you are high or low or off centerline and correct the wrong way.

False Horizon: Lights from roads in the distance or clouds can give you the illusion of a horizon and you need to align yourself with it. If you have no other visual reference, you can easily get out of control quickly if not corrected.

It's easy to be a monday morning quarterback but it is quite a different feeling at night, in the clouds, or heaven forbid when your instruments are all fucked up. I've done training flights in simulators with my instructor failing the vacuum system (so I have no attitude indicator or directional gyro). I've made the mistake of not being able to identify the failed system and I see one instrument spinning one way and my compass spinning the other, you get disoriented very very quickly and you start to panic and it just snowballs. Continued training is the only way around it and we can always learn from these accidents.

[deanmine]

so, oil gas static ports {check) , ok!! put the bird up!

[Vanessa12106]

Originally Posted by FNAL ↗

Don't be an ignorant jackass, it's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about so let me explain.

If all the static ports were blocked:

-Your altimeter is stuck at whatever altitude it was blocked and wont move

-Your vertical speed indicator will show no climb or descent, be stuck at zero

-Autopilot systems are fucked since they get erroneous information and try to correct which makes things worse

-Your airspeed indicator (which uses both the pitot tube and the static ports) will only indicate correctly at the same altitude the port was blocked. So it essentially works like a reverse altimeter, the higher you go, the lower your airspeed will read. So that could be why in the CVR, the pilots were confused because they showed they were in a climbing attitude but the airspeed was decreasing. When you cross reference that with no vertical speed or accurate altimeter readings, you start to lose situation awareness very quick.

An instrument that gives false information is worse than one that gives no indications. Considering it was at night and over water (not sure if they were in the clouds or not), you can also fall victim to several visual illusions:

Featureless Terrain: You have no idea where the ground is or the horizon. You think they could just look down and see the water and pull up but it is just a black void.

Black Hole Approach: Piggybacking with featureless terrain but if you are on an approach with no reference in your peripheral vision, you might think you are high or low or off centerline and correct the wrong way.

False Horizon: Lights from roads in the distance or clouds can give you the illusion of a horizon and you need to align yourself with it. If you have no other visual reference, you can easily get out of control quickly if not corrected.

It's easy to be a monday morning quarterback but it is quite a different feeling at night, in the clouds, or heaven forbid when your instruments are all fucked up. I've done training flights in simulators with my instructor failing the vacuum system (so I have no attitude indicator or directional gyro). I've made the mistake of not being able to identify the failed system and I see one instrument spinning one way and my compass spinning the other, you get disoriented very very quickly and you start to panic and it just snowballs. Continued training is the only way around it and we can always learn from these accidents.

Right! I was thinking "you try being in one of their seats and you would be one dead motherfucker!"