[cutler]

sad

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by curious_one ↗

I will revisit the other thread about the columns. I am glad John showed you some respect. You never know how you may affect people nowadays, so I feel like we should be sensitive about the things we say pertaining to 9/11.

I have seen hardcore "truthers" do an about face after they learn that the cores were indeed Gypsum sheetrock. They were not concrete, reinforced or any other at all, just simple Gypsum sheetrock.

That is why so many have trouble beleiving that the plane's impact, and resulting fires were enough to bring them down. After they find out they were not concrete, you can see the gears turning, and many have said, ok, I guees it was planes and fire.

Many assumptions were made about the towers, just like Frank Martini, he said the towers were like the screen in you screen door. He said you shove a pencil in, and it simply pushes the interconnecting grids away from each other.

What many do not know is he was just the WTC general director, making sure everything ran as smoothly as possible. He was not however, an engineer. He was going by the statements that said the towers could survive an impact from a 707, at the time they were the largest aircraft in the world by civillian standards.

They did survive the impacts, but they had not accounted for the fuels, and combustibles in the towers. Had the fires been controlled, the towers would have likely continued to stand. Take the impacts and fires, and it was just a matter of time.

[300ZXNA]

To expand on why the structures would not have surivived, I also think that the speeds of the planes plays a part. I imagine when they were designing the towers, they weren't thinking of a plane at full speed intentionally squaring up the tower. They were probably thinking it would be more of an incidental impact.

[LT89]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

No reason to apologize, I would rather you speak your mind even if it took two pages, rather than say nothing at all. If nothing else, I just hope this helps people understand how fast life can and does change sometimes, and to try to appreciate what they have, because it could always be worse.

You can be working in a corner office that you worked your ass off to get in a skyscraper one minute, then plunging 1000 feet to your death to keep from burning alive the next.

I had another memeber make some rude comments to me a while back, saying I was obsessed with 9/11, and to an extent that is true.
They went on to say that 9/11 is my expertise, and that is when I said something. I told them it was not my expertise, it is something I deal with everyday. I guess some wont understand unless they have to experience something similar.

To be honest, I would rather a person remain ignorant of it than have to experience it. Some might consider that to be an insult, but ignorant just means unlearned of a subject. I would rather them not experience it and think what they want to, rather than experience it and say now I understand what you were talking about.

I am by no means an expert, I have just tried to learn everything I could about a day that so drasticlly changed me, and everyone else, even if others do not realize it.

From the many of your posts in this thread that I have read, I must say I deeply respect your attitude towards life and others. Practically everyone else who has personal experience with the events of 9/11 are very bitter about it, and fierce towards anything and anyone they might experience as disrespectful of it. That's why I really find it admirable how you're able to remain friendly and keep your composure while talking about it with others, instead of arguing.

If people on this planet want to works towards living in peace and harmony with each other, the first step would be to show understanding instead of narrowmindedness. You really seem to me like you are understanding, realistic and open minded. My hats off to you

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by 300ZXNA ↗

To expand on why the structures would not have surivived, I also think that the speeds of the planes plays a part. I imagine when they were designing the towers, they weren't thinking of a plane at full speed intentionally squaring up the tower. They were probably thinking it would be more of an incidental impact.

That is VERY true. Velocity determines most of the damage, as the planes were going in excess off 480 mph. Flight 11 was around 480 mph (?), and Flight 175 was around 560 mph (?). I added the question marks because give or take a little, it was close to those speeds.

That much weight, all the jet fuel, the speed at which it struck, it was just a matter of time. The countdown began as soon as the planes hit. Strange how a few feet can determine life or death isn't it ? So many people died that day, yet a man named Stanley Praimnath survived, and his office in the South Tower took a DIRECT hit. The wing stopped about 20 or 30 feet from him.

Then you have the towers collapsing the way they did. Everyone still in the South Tower was killed when it came down. On the other hand, about 18 people survived the North Tower collapse. I think most were inbetween the 6th and 1st floors, and the way the debris piled up, it formed a "cacoon" at that level. One man was on around the 21st floor, and rode it down the rest of the way. Can't remember his whole name............Pascal......can't remember his last name. His worst injury was a broken leg. Talk about shitting ones' pants, I would have.

Check out the Miracle of staiway B if you get a chance.

[Billthegravedigger]

Originally Posted by LT89 ↗

From the many of your posts in this thread that I have read, I must say I deeply respect your attitude towards life and others. Practically everyone else who has personal experience with the events of 9/11 are very bitter about it, and fierce towards anything and anyone they might experience as disrespectful of it. That's why I really find it admirable how you're able to remain friendly and keep your composure while talking about it with others, instead of arguing.

If people on this planet want to works towards living in peace and harmony with each other, the first step would be to show understanding instead of narrowmindedness. You really seem to me like you are understanding, realistic and open minded. My hats off to you

Thank you, I appreciate it. It took some time to get to this point, I can tell you that. At first I was very bitter and angry, and it showed. As time went on though, I realized it could have just as easily been me trapped up there with one way down.

That is when survivor's guilt set in. I'm glad I am still here, don't get me wrong. It just seems as though there are plenty of other people that could have done more good in this life than I ever will. Yet I am still here, and they are not.

Then I would look at my daughters, and I realized how blessed I am. I try not to take anything for granted, but like all humans, I still do from time to time. I try to stay open minded because of a conversation I had with somebody that did not understand why people were jumping to a certain death.

Why did they jump ? I would have found another way down. It pissed me off honestly, I said do you HONESTLY think those people would have jumped to their undeniable, certain death, if they had not exhausted EVERY OTHER VIABLE OPTION ?

People said they were commiting suicide, and I realized something. It's one of those instances when you realize you have always known it, but it doesn't neccesarily occur to you.

I looked at this person, and the look in my eyes had a strange effect on them. They litteraly set back in their chair and looked really uneasy. I said are you that stupid ? Really, are you that fuckin' close minded ? Suicide ? Ok asshole, if you say so.

Then I asked them how many people survived that were trapped above the impact area, and they said none. I said doesn't that tell you something ? They were not choosing to die, they were choosing how to die. It's not suicide if you will not survive anyway, it is avoiding heat, smoke, pain, and then dying anyway.

It really bothered me that they were so judgmental, and had more or less condemned them to suicide in their own minds. That is when I realized I was the same way, and needed to work on it, even if I was closeminded about other things.

Closeminded is closeminded, weither it is about people dying, or not giving a person a chance to say what they feel, even if I do not agree with them. About the only thing that really pisses me off is the dumbshits that say the people who fell or jumped were dummies loaded with foodcoloring.

That pisses me the fuck off, I saw at least 30 people hit and explode all over the concrete, they were very real, and very alive all the way to the ground. Then there was no hope of them surviving.

Somebody asked me if I was being closeminded about there being no chance for any of them surviving a fall from that height. I said maybe, is it close minded to think someone will not survive being put in a guioltine and their head being removed from the rest of their body ?

[Billthegravedigger]

The man I was talking about is named Pasquale Buzzelli. He was on the 22nd floor when the North Tower came down, and his worst injury was a broken leg.

You can hear him talk about it on the Natioal Geographic program, called Inside 9/11. Part 3 of 4 at the 24:36 mark.

[300ZXNA]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

The man I was talking about is named Pasquale Buzzelli. He was on the 22nd floor when the North Tower came down, and his worst injury was a broken leg.

You can hear him talk about it on the Natioal Geographic program, called Inside 9/11. Part 3 of 4 at the 24:36 mark.

I cannot IMAGINE what it would be like to have experienced that. The sound and noise must have been surreal.

[Codemonkey3]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

Somebody asked me if I was being closeminded about there being no chance for any of them surviving a fall from that height. I said maybe, is it close minded to think someone will not survive being put in a guioltine and their head being removed from the rest of their body ?

How is that close minded? It's pretty much a fact that no matter what they land on they're still falling with enough force to kill them instantly when they land.

[jay631]

Originally Posted by Billthegravedigger ↗

Yes, you have some things you can't get rid of either then. What sticks with you more than anything else ? I can guess, but I might be wrong, so I wont speculate on it. Where you NYPD or FDNY ?

At any rate, I am glad you made it out alive, so many didn't.

I was there as a cop, but I don't work for the NYPD. Responded from nearby. I can only describe that day as a huge shock to the senses. Sights, sounds and smells that will never go away. 10 years later and they're still as strong as they were that day. I was there for weeks, stopping only to sleep, eat, shower and change.