[m1324]

Gun fanatics start posting this one after every shooting.

One is a poor third world shithole. The other is one of the richest countries in the world with all social benefits.

[Meridian]

Interesting. So you can basically build your own automatic weapon? Wonder if he ever practised anywhere? Not seen any mention of him at a firing range etc yet. Did he just research it all, convert the guns and hope it worked?

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by -me- ↗

Tackling "thug culture" is modern incarnation of the demons of "heavy metal music", or "rock n roll"...

Yeah I've no doubt that gangs are a source of crime....but "thug culture" (music, fashion, language etc) really isn't - it's just as much a symptom as the crime is. but because it's an "other" it causes some paranoia.

But yes, disrupt gangs and groups who congregate to celebrate violence in conjunction with banning guns. It all helps.

If nothing else, groups of people (youths?) who celebrate violence via gangs, white supremacy etc should be dispersed because they intimidate the rest of us trying to get by.


But Brazil doesn't ban guns...they are still available for sale. It's what I am stating - half-way measures are insufficient! Look at this latest shooter - either illegally purchasing, or modifying guns to emulate automatic fire.

Heavy metal in its day was heavily scrutinized. Most kids growing up in that era jammed out, but very few took it as a daily life, and inspiration or motivation. Majority of kids phased out of the "trend". In the 90s when Americans tried to do the same to rap, that went across the line into promotion of radical anarchy propaganda, people were silenced into submission and labeled racist.

Then it became a free market of mass production and distribution into every enclave across America. Even the most rural towns of America started seeing the rise of "gang culture " ..
Brazil has stricter gun laws than even Australia. They have fewer "gun related " incidents than America, but 25.2 mpc (Brazil) Vs 4.5 (America)-

So, does Brazil lack of "gun violence" make Brazil any better?

I mean I get it. The world would be as awesome as londonstan. A melting pot of culture, great food from all over, and exotic looking and speaking people to choose to have Starbucks Coffee with!

Sure, there is the occasional bombings, stabbings, acid attacks, beheading, rapes, stabbings, and raging truck smashing people, but hey! At the very least, we can indeed say no guns were involved! Yay!

Sounds wonderful on paper. However-lack of guns won't stop any of it from happening. More guns may not either- however, Are bombs better than guns?

As someone that worked in the Middle East for Halliburton, I've seen what bombs do to people. Very few people survive bombs. The few that does, wish they hadn't. It's even harder for bomb survivors that don't have a war hero's badge to go along their permanently disfigurements.

More people survive gunshots, than die from them. Keep an eye on Chicago, sometime. See how many weekend warriors walk out of ICU with nothing but a nickle sized scar, and a story to tell his buddies.

Very few survive knife attacks. Usually, the survivors were stabbed by a perps in botched armed robberies, the ones that didn't survive had to endure countless minutes of feeling a piercing sharp object inserted into their bodies several times, hitting nerves and tendons at every jab. Ever felt that? I have once, I couldn't imagine, or want to imagine, it being done as many times until my murderous assailant is satisfied im dead.

Do I need to mention beheading? The #1 method in most very violent gun free countries? Go look at the videos. Imagine being sawed at with a dull kitchen knife while you're forced to look on and endure each and every non productive slice.

Trucks? Imagine laying half alive with your genitals laying out in front all to see next to a big pile of guts, most vehicle homicides, the victims sustain life for very long agonizing minutes, unless decapitated.

So with that said; if people are compelled to murder you, what would be the best choice of weapons used?

I'd pray to the imaginary spaghetti god, they found a gun. By them having one, increased my chances of survival with potentially minor long term physical problems.


Getting rid of guns won't stop anything. If anything, it forces people to suffer worse fates, and prolonged suffering, for something inevitable to happen rather a gun was in the scenario or not.

Political violence doesn't need a gun.
Racially motivated hate crimes don't need a gun.
Mentally ill don't need a gun.
Gangs, don't need guns, we have a notoriously murderous gang in America, mostly Mexican descent, that prides itself in the use of machetes, over guns.
Crimes of passion don't need guns.
All things criminal that will take a life, doesn't need guns.
They will happen anyway.

Not having guns, won't deter it, either. Their methodology will just evolve. Husbands will stab cheating wives, political terrorist will use bombs and trucks. Racist will return to ropes and pitch forks, gangs to knives and machetes.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by m1324 ↗

Gun fanatics start posting this one after every shooting.

One is a poor third world shithole. The other is one of the richest countries in the world with all social benefits.

Ah! America has shit-hole cities, but didn't you mention it's irrelevant?

[-me-]

Originally Posted by Meridian ↗

Interesting. So you can basically build your own automatic weapon? Wonder if he ever practised anywhere? Not seen any mention of him at a firing range etc yet. Did he just research it all, convert the guns and hope it worked?

You can print a gun if you are so inclined, and if you are willing to go to prison.

[DelightfulEnglish]

Apparently this was a hoax. Same "crisis actor" as the Sandy Hook one - Gene Rosen

[Dodecahedron]

https://twitter.com/Calebkeeter/stat...72808110510080


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opini...619-story.html

"The center also dives into the thorny thicket of how often the presence of a gun stops a crime — either violent or against property, such as a burglary — from happening. The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year."

[Jrad]

Originally Posted by Meridian ↗

Interesting. So you can basically build your own automatic weapon? Wonder if he ever practised anywhere? Not seen any mention of him at a firing range etc yet. Did he just research it all, convert the guns and hope it worked?

He wouldn't necessarily have to go to a gun range because I believe in Nevada that you can go out to any place that has a natural backstop and shoot as long as you clean up after yourself. If anyone came across him shooting full auto I'm positive the reaction would have been 'awesome' not 'I'm reporting you to the ATF'.

I'm not from there but I watch a fair amount of youtube firearms content and I seem to recall that being the case.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by Dodecahedron ↗

https://twitter.com/Calebkeeter/stat...72808110510080


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opini...619-story.html

"The center also dives into the thorny thicket of how often the presence of a gun stops a crime — either violent or against property, such as a burglary — from happening. The gun lobby trots out an annual figure of 2.5 million such instances. But an analysis of five years’ worth of stats collected by the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey puts the number much, much lower — about 67,740 times a year."

If you read the article carefully, they attempt to count violent offences that happens mostly in major metropolitan areas that
have strict gun laws against the number of prevention guns contributed to.

That's comparable to saying all the gold fish in one tank that never got fed at all, died, because they never ate red colored flakes, whilst the fish in a tank fed daily lives, only because they had red flakes added.

[-me-]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Brazil has stricter gun laws than even Australia. They have fewer "gun related " incidents than America, but 25.2 mpc (Brazil) Vs 4.5 (America)-

So, does Brazil lack of "gun violence" make Brazil any better?

Clearly it does in terms of gun crime. but that isn't the point. Brazil is nowhere near as developed a country as the US or UK. It is not comparable.

We live to a higher standard, so we ditch the (civilian) guns and live more peacefully because we have a society that pretty much looks after our basic requirements (or it should - but this is an area that the US needs to catch up on too). We rely on publicly sponsored authorities to "serve and protect" us.

I mean I get it. The world would be as awesome as londonstan. A melting pot of culture, great food from all over, and exotic looking and speaking people to choose to have Starbucks Coffee with!

Sure, there is the occasional bombings, stabbings, acid attacks, beheading, rapes, stabbings, and raging truck smashing people, but hey! At the very least, we can indeed say no guns were involved! Yay!

Then you don't "get it" at all. Those incidents are incredibly rare in the UK - so rare they make for BIG headlines...just as terrorist incidents in the US are incredibly rare.

US gun crime is NOT incredibly rare - it's literally an every day occurrence. One that you seem so accustomed to, that you don't seem interested in mitigating against.

I'm glad I do live in the UK. I hope our gun-free culture becomes a beacon you can aspire to and that your gun-totting does not transfer here.

*I do enjoy the fictionalised material though - gimmie some walking dead on the screen...just not in real life.

Are bombs better than guns?

More people survive gunshots, than die from them. Keep an eye on Chicago, sometime. See how many weekend warriors walk out of ICU with nothing but a nickle sized scar, and a story to tell his buddies.

knife attacks. beheading? Trucks?

if people are compelled to murder you, what would be the best choice of weapons used?

It's not an either/or situation though.

Sure, some people will choose that path no matter what and pick whatever weapon is available (terrorists especially), but many more will stop at guns and not even think of driving a vehicle into a crowd.

Then there's the sheer breadth of damage that can be inflicted. Five-hundred people injured by one man!!!! That would not happen with a knife.

And that's the thing, the reason you see people surviving gunshots is because so many are shot...the law of averages means that you will see many gun shot survivors....the same happens with those on the outer rim of a crowd driven at, or a group faced with a knife wielding maniac. At the epicentre people will surely die, but others will not (many fewer either way than those facing automatic gunfire).

Political violence doesn't need a gun.
Racially motivated hate crimes don't need a gun.
Mentally ill don't need a gun.
Gangs, don't need guns, we have a notoriously murderous gang in America, mostly Mexican descent, that prides itself in the use of machetes, over guns.
Crimes of passion don't need guns.
All things criminal that will take a life, doesn't need guns.
They will happen anyway.

Not in many cases..

Let's take "Crimes of passion" as you mentioned it. These are "heat of the moment" incidents of blind rage.

It has been shown that this in particular has been made much more prevalent due to the access of guns in a household. It's the same with suicide. Think it, grab gun - BOOM! done!

No crime needs a gun, but it takes contemplation and effort almost any other way. Suicidal thoughts and relationship based anger in particular are often drained of their power when given sufficient time. We know this, which is why there exist councillors and telephone helplines.
Guns do not offer the much needed cooling off period.

Not having guns, won't deter it, either. Their methodology will just evolve. Husbands will stab cheating wives, political terrorist will use bombs and trucks. Racist will return to ropes and pitch forks, gangs to knives and machetes.

These things happen - true. But they are far less prevalent when no guns are available.

Yes, we have to deal with this from all angles, but gun banishment is a very effective start.