[dandroid]

interesting. ... the revolver is behind him. left temple i guess

[stoka]

Originally Posted by hambone ↗

I found his death photo

Nice find !

[-me-]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Ah! But it isn't that simple.
Over 60% of gun related homicides are self inflicted. Give suicidal people a gun in the UK, their statistics would grow similar.

...which is an excellent reason NOT to give out guns.

The rest being inner city issues, namely in predominately black neighborhoods. Removing that element and America would have a per capita closer to Holland.

No. I might agree that it's poor neighbourhoods, but I don't think skin-pigmentation has a thing to do with it. As you mention skewed data, it may well be that data gets skewed against an ethnic community due to the attitudes of those in power (the entire legal and educational system perhaps).

There is no cheap and simple solution there. To attempt "Removing that element" would be racist, illegal and impractical (they are US citizens with as much of a right to live in the US as other US citizens).

Equality is hard to achieve as it may require positive discrimination...and many of us understandably fight tooth and nail against it.

The US, being as large is it is, has a bit more complex of measure when comparing to smaller countries the size of some of our major cities. If you went more along state by state basis (which in theory is little countries in a union) to compare to the UK, then you'd find some are better, or worse, but not all the same. It boils down to demographics, cultures, environments, etc. Which obviously America is very diverse on those terms.

To lump the entire US together to compare to small, still somewhat monolithic society isn't a balanced measure.

The big argument on gun laws is allowing a few people in a very large society, fuck it up for everyone else.

Indeed. This is what I have been stating - a ban would need to be across the board...not by state because one can just cross a state and bring contraband through.

A national ban on guns, in the longer term, would be beneficial. As I stated - it's obvious!

Using skewed statistics to push agendas, that has entirely nothing to do with public safety. We have other public safety concerns that dwarfs Anual gun related deaths ten folds that goes totally ignored.

33 thousand gun related deaths per year average. 60% or more are suicide related. In a population 323 million people, isn't even an epidemic. Suicide is the epidemic

I agree - there are many concerns.
But that does not mean examination of gun laws is insignificant. It's another issue to deal with...and one that is significantly more of an issue than terrorism on US soil. Yet, the public are made to feel that terrorism is an every day occurrence when it's rare event...On the other hand mass shootings do occur every day! - and that's just mass shootings (three or more affected)...several individual shooting occur daily...too many for the news to even bother with.

To put it in perspective for you have a look at the Gun Violence Archive. Now, bear in mind that this only deals with reported mass-shootings and tell me it doesn't just make you feel a little despair. And it will go on...and on...and on...and on (as with Police accidental shootings) - until someone in charge wakes up, ignores the heavily funded gun lobby and takes the guns off the streets.

I suspect the eventual relaxation of existing gun laws under Trump, and subsequently a few more tragedies sadly will grip the nation into action (as it has with Health care)

, mostly due to constant wars and a cycle of youth being rotated in/out of military.

The rest is a mix of gang violence, a nice chunk of it thanks to illegals, cartels, etc, and inner city crimes predominately in black communities.

Then the small end is justifiable homicide and accidental, which combined with suicide, exceed the amount of gun violence in statistics.

These are subjective examples, but all should be examined of course. Banning of guns and decimating the fascination with them will reduce US crime. Go on, give it a try.

[Loop1]

Contribution to the thread by Loop1:

1.jpg

2.jpg

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by -me- ↗

...which is an excellent reason NOT to give out guns.

No. I might agree that it's poor neighbourhoods, but I don't think skin-pigmentation has a thing to do with it. As you mention skewed data, it may well be that data gets skewed against an ethnic community due to the attitudes of those in power (the entire legal and educational system perhaps).

There is no cheap and simple solution there. To attempt "Removing that element" would be racist, illegal and impractical (they are US citizens with as much of a right to live in the US as other US citizens).

Equality is hard to achieve as it may require positive discrimination...and many of us understandably fight tooth and nail against it.

Indeed. This is what I have been stating - a ban would need to be across the board...not by state because one can just cross a state and bring contraband through.

A national ban on guns, in the longer term, would be beneficial. As I stated - it's obvious!

I agree - there are many concerns.
But that does not mean examination of gun laws is insignificant. It's another issue to deal with...and one that is significantly more of an issue than terrorism on US soil. Yet, the public are made to feel that terrorism is an every day occurrence when it's rare event...On the other hand mass shootings do occur every day! - and that's just mass shootings (three or more affected)...several individual shooting occur daily...too many for the news to even bother with.

To put it in perspective for you have a look at the Gun Violence Archive. Now, bear in mind that this only deals with reported mass-shootings and tell me it doesn't just make you feel a little despair. And it will go on...and on...and on...and on (as with Police accidental shootings) - until someone in charge wakes up, ignores the heavily funded gun lobby and takes the guns off the streets.

I suspect the eventual relaxation of existing gun laws under Trump, and subsequently a few more tragedies sadly will grip the nation into action (as it has with Health care)

These are subjective examples, but all should be examined of course. Banning of guns and decimating the fascination with them will reduce US crime. Go on, give it a try.

No one said it has anything to do with skin color. Facts are facts, and facts doesn't see skin color. No government isn't skewing stats, most stats can be compiled on a state by state, city by city independent study. I'll leave that to the testing your own objective.

6% of the entire population contributes to 50% of violent crimes, (young black males)
which vastly contributes to the gun related crime statistics. So why should the entire country be held responsible for a tiny group of irresponsible thugs, that commits most of these crimes in already heavily regulated gun zones?

Suicidal people, like murderous people, will find other alternatives. Taking an object away doesn't cure the problem.
It also doesn't bring down the murder per capita or violence. Several countries have higher per capita murder rates than the US with complete gun bans. The US' murder per capita in the 80s was double what it is today. We also had very strict gun laws during that time, nationally.

Only thing it would change is taking the term "gun related" out of it.

[-me-]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

No one said it has anything to do with skin color.

Are you sure?.....This sure looks like mentioning skin colour:

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

predominately black neighborhoods. Removing that element and America would have a per capita closer to Holland.

Facts are facts, and facts doesn't see skin color. No government isn't skewing stats, most stats can be compiled on a state by state, city by city independent study. I'll leave that to the testing your own objective.

6% of the entire population contributes to 50% of violent crimes, (young black males)
which vastly contributes to the gun related crime statistics. So why should the entire country be held responsible for a tiny group of irresponsible thugs, that commits most of these crimes in already heavily regulated gun zones?

And here is the problem. You can break stats down any way you like....Nearly all serious crime is committed by males (88%). So by THAT definition all males should be extradited. Why don't the authorities do that?? Simple - because it's a daft "solution" that would impinge the rights to life of so many innocent people.

The problem with gun ownership is that banning them across the board would only effect the 22% that have them, and even then it would not impact their way of existence, just their ability to play with a toy. (*of course, in rare, rare instances some would suffer when they might not otherwise, but it does not compare to the number dead/wounded due to a small percentage being permitted the guns). Right now the declared "rights" of the few to play with pop-pops are affecting the peace of the many. And that is a fact.

Suicidal people, like murderous people, will find other alternatives. Taking an object away doesn't cure the problem.

In most case, yes it does - very much so. Squeezing a trigger is many times easier than slashing at skin...it's far less personal, especially in the case of this latest coward from floor 32 of a hotel.

It also doesn't bring down the murder per capita or violence. Several countries have higher per capita murder rates than the US with complete gun bans.

You might have to provide examples so that we can discuss the comparative situation.

Many countries have high density populations (unlike the US) where they are effectively torn by civil war.

The US is still in the top 100 - not anything to be proud of. Aim higher - get rid of your guns.

The US' murder per capita in the 80s was double what it is today. We also had very strict gun laws during that time, nationally.

You have many more guns on the street, loopholes and more sophisticated guns - that is the point!

The trouble is that a full ban in the US has yet to be tested. The long term benefit of that needs to be measured over the decades.

Still, the gun lobby, just as with the cigarette lobby before them, will flail around endangering you all until it it is obvious to most people that they need to be regulated to the hilt.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by -me- ↗

Are you sure?.....This sure looks like mentioning skin colour:



And here is the problem. You can break stats down any way you like....Nearly all serious crime is committed by males (88%). So by THAT definition all males should be extradited. Why don't the authorities do that?? Simple - because it's a daft "solution" that would impinge the rights to life of so many innocent people.

The problem with gun ownership is that banning them across the board would only effect the 22% that have them, and even then it would not impact their way of existence, just their ability to play with a toy. (*of course, in rare, rare instances some would suffer when they might not otherwise, but it does not compare to the number dead/wounded due to a small percentage being permitted the guns). Right now the declared "rights" of the few to play with pop-pops are affecting the peace of the many. And that is a fact.

In most case, yes it does - very much so. Squeezing a trigger is many times easier than slashing at skin...it's far less personal, especially in the case of this latest coward from floor 32 of a hotel.


You might have to provide examples so that we can discuss the comparative situation.

Many countries have high density populations (unlike the US) where they are effectively torn by civil war.

The US is still in the top 100 - not anything to be proud of. Aim higher - get rid of your guns.


You have many more guns on the street, loopholes and more sophisticated guns - that is the point!

The trouble is that a full ban in the US has yet to be tested. The long term benefit of that needs to be measured over the decades.

Still, the gun lobby, just as with the cigarette lobby before them, will flail around endangering you all until it it is obvious to most people that they need to be regulated to the hilt.

It's not a "daft" solution to critique a culture of people without the restraints of political correctness. Perhaps if we tackled the highly influential "thug culture" pumped into mainstream conscious, as a alternative way out of poverty, inner city "predominately black" neighborhoods would see a decline in violence, and the evil "gun related" violence statistic would follow, would it not?

Example are simple, one was mentioned earlier. Brazil has a tough gun law policy, are 25.2 murder per capita. America with its "toys" still fall in the 4.5 range, suicides accounted because of residual Christian influences considering it "murder" to kill yourself.
Hunduras Vs Switzerland ? Both close to the same size in land mass and population. One has gun bans, the other encourages all to have guns. One has 20 murders a day, care to guess which?

[-me-]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

It's not a "daft" solution to critique a culture of people without the restraints of political correctness. Perhaps if we tackled the highly influential "thug culture" pumped into mainstream conscious, as a alternative way out of poverty, inner city "predominately black" neighborhoods would see a decline in violence, and the evil "gun related" violence statistic would follow, would it not?

Tackling "thug culture" is modern demonising of "breakaway youth culture". It used to be "heavy metal music", or "rock n roll"...or "mods"...or "skinheads"...or "punks"...

Yeah, I've no doubt that gangs are a source of crime....but "thug culture" (music, fashion, language etc) really isn't - it's just as much a symptom as the crime is. But because it's an "other" it causes some paranoia.

But yes, disrupt gangs and groups who congregate to celebrate violence in conjunction with banning guns. It all helps.

If nothing else, congregations of people (youths?) who celebrate violence via gangs, white supremacy etc should be dispersed because they intimidate the rest of us as we try to get by.

Example are simple, one was mentioned earlier. Brazil has a tough gun law policy, are 25.2 murder per capita. America with its "toys" still fall in the 4.5 range, suicides accounted because of residual Christian influences considering it "murder" to kill yourself.
Hunduras Vs Switzerland ? Both close to the same size in land mass and population. One has gun bans, the other encourages all to have guns. One has 20 murders a day, care to guess which?

But Brazil doesn't ban guns...they are still available for sale. It's what I am stating - half-way measures are insufficient! Look at this latest shooter - either illegally purchasing, or modifying guns to emulate automatic fire.

[5150]

Originally Posted by Meridian ↗

Pics of two of the guns in his room plus smashed windows and illustration showing line of sight
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dai...ck-s-room.html

Based on these photos the shooter was not using an "automatic" or "assault rifles". What he was using was legal semi-automatic sporting rifles (that look like assault rifles). He installed what is called a Slide Fire stock. The stock uses the recoil from the rod to make your finger slide back and forth at a high rate of speed to simulate shooting a fully automatic rifle. The stocks are legal in most states and illegal in a few in the USA. He also has attached to the rifle a SureFire 100 round magazine. What he was doing is called bump firing. It is fun to do fog giggles but accuracy goes down the toilet. In this case since he was shooting at a very large target of thousands of people clustered together the accuracy didn't matter. He put a little thought into this. May he burn in hell for eternity.

On another topic, can everyone drop the gun control debate crap on every shooting thread? Can Chris make a rule that if someone starts gun control debate unless it is a politics thread they will get banned? Never fails to have clueless people wanting more gun control to hijack every single shooting thread.

[wilfred]

Wow!! Great find? How did you find his death photo?