Montreal Bans All Pit Bulls

[lesslis2015]

Don't disagree oz. Sure some choir preaching going on here but may help one or two. Still say the crackdown should be the prevention of off the wall breeding for staffies. Breed bans dont seem to be working. It must be cheaper to just let them, (humans) breed em the law find em and animal control kill em. Seems ass backwards and unfair to the breed fix imo.

[Desensitisation]

Originally Posted by Oswald2001

All the talk of animal training and conditioning is just STRAW MAN deflection.

The real problem animals are the owners.

The owners are UP TO NO GOOD and they use pit bulls or whatever else at hand to create the HAVOC and CHAOS that they crave.

Unless the root of the problem is addressed, any action taken is as useless as the clueless action taker.

Just impotent 'feel good' delusional nonsense.

Whilst I do agree for the most part that it's the owners who create the problems, not the dogs, there are also dogs that are in and of themselves a problem, and need not only the right owner, but the right training. You can't just dismiss training advice as "delusional" nonsense simply because it doesn't fit into your narrow view of the world.

[Desensitisation]

Originally Posted by Illusion

I just wanted to thank you for taking your time and dropping some knowledge in here. You said you were a dog behavioral trainer and you had trained many different breeds? I was hoping you could enlighten us about Pit bull temperament.

We already talked about irresponsible ownership. When I look at the stats, Pits were responsible for 82% of dog attacks resulting in death in 2015 and the breed makes up less than 7% of the total dog population in the U.S. That's an alarming stat that tells me there's more to it than irresponsible owners.

From my understanding every domesticated dog can be traced back to wild gray wolves from hundreds of years of selective breeding. Through selective breeding, breeders were able to produce the type of dog they wanted. Some produced dogs for work, others for show and some for fighting.

Pit bulls are basically a bull dog/terrier mix used for bull baiting and then later for dogfighting in the 1800s. Pit bull apologists love to ignore the dog's aggressive genetic traits and blame everything on environmental issues. Can you explain some of these behavioral traits that are unique to the breed.

Thanks in advance.

There is no denying that the pit-bull type breeds are bred for strong set of genes that predispose them to high strength-to-size ratio, and tenacity. There's a reason their head looks as muscled as it does: It's so they can bite hard as buggery. There's a reason they seem to feel no pain: They've been selectively bred for tenacity and high pain tolerance.

Whilst I don't believe in breed specific legislation and bans, I DO believe in licensing of people to own certain types of dogs, pit-bulls and others included, because of their overall genetic predisposition. But the problem with that is that it paints all dogs of a certain breed as behaving a certain way, and there's plenty of variability within each breed. I've met pit-bull type dogs that are the biggest pussies you've ever seen; I've met Labradors and other so-called "bomb-proof" breeds that have wanted to tear people to shreds at the drop of a hat.

The biggest drive that needs to be taken is educating owners and dog breeders, trainers, and any person working with dogs is assessing each and every dog as an individual. Any aggressive dog, irrespective of breed, should be treated carefully, and controlled appropriately, and I don't care if it's a Chihuahua. Does it bite and attack people and animals on a whim? Make sure you house and restrain it appropriately, and train it.

As for certain breeds being more archaic then others: Yes, there are. But the pit-bull types don't generally fall into that category. It's usually Huskies, Malamutes, Akitas, Maremmas, and other "wolf-looking" dogs that have a higher proportion of genetic make-up that makes them ever so slightly closer related to wolves compared to the more "bastardized" breeds of dogs like Chihuahuas, Labradors, Cavalier King Charles, and Pugs.

The "archaic" breeds tend to have more common traits of being "stubborn" and harder to train. This is because these dogs tend to think more for themselves, are generally intelligent, have stronger internal drives for basic motivations like food-guarding and whatnot, and thus they tend to be a bit more work to handle. These are dogs that have a better appreciation for hierarchy on average, tolerate change in situation and environment less well, and a bigger reliance on trust with their owners in order to have any sort of rewarding relationship. That doesn't mean the more bastardized designer dog breeds can't be problematic.

[Oswald2001]

Originally Posted by Desensitisation

Whilst I do agree for the most part that it's the owners who create the problems, not the dogs, there are also dogs that are in and of themselves a problem, and need not only the right owner, but the right training. You can't just dismiss training advice as "delusional" nonsense simply because it doesn't fit into your narrow view of the world.

Training advice is well and fine in the proper context. Its just that it will not solve The REAL Problem.

The REAL Problem is F*ckwit Owners.

That's it.

Nothing else is The REAL Problem.


Unless F*ckwit Owners are dealt with, nothing has been done.




You might as well have suggested painting your front porch...for all the good it will do.

Why not advice on how to change your own water pump?

Or the optimum method of growing radishes in a home garden?



Proper training and treatment of animals comes into play when there are good responsible owners...and are quite separate matters from The REAL Problem.

Even if proper training might help, F*ckwit Owners will not do it...because they are F*ckwits.

Pit Bull problems are because of F*ckwit Owners.



It's quite odd that you would mischaracterize a precise and concise isolation of The REAL Problem as a "narrow view of the world."


I'm not too narrow.

You, and the vast majority of other people, are simply in denial.

[lesslis2015]

Perfect fix......stop breeding fuc wit humans! That could help in so many ways and problems of our country. Unfortunately, that won't happen and the animals and uninformed will continue paying the price.

[Oswald2001]

Originally Posted by lesslis2015

Perfect fix......stop breeding fuc wit humans! That could help in so many ways and problems of our country. Unfortunately, that won't happen and the animals and uninformed will continue paying the price.

I suggest....NAPALM!

[lesslis2015]

^^^^^
Lol. stop, u crazy human!!

[Illusion]

Originally Posted by lesslis2015

Don't disagree oz. Sure some choir preaching going on here but may help one or two. Still say the crackdown should be the prevention of off the wall breeding for staffies. Breed bans dont seem to be working. It must be cheaper to just let them, (humans) breed em the law find em and animal control kill em. Seems ass backwards and unfair to the breed fix imo.

I respectfully disagree. There's a valid reason why these dogs are banned from practically every 1st world country. There are over 700 US cities that uphold breed-specific legislations (BSL) that specifically target Pits and Rottweilers.

Personally having experienced living through a pit bull ban, i can honestly say the ban does work. In 2004, the last full year before the ban, there were 984 pit bulls licensed in my city and 168 reported pit bull bites. That’s more than double the rate of German shepherds, the next most aggressive breed. In 2013, the pit bull population was down to 501, and there were only 13 reported pit bull bites. That's 168 bites to only 13 within 7 years of the ban.

It's blatantly obvious that the higher the pit bull population the higher the fatality rates connected to these animals. Here's the thing; people don't want to a) be attacked by dangerous dogs, b) live in fear in their own communities, and c) be intimidated by their idiot owners.

[lesslis2015]

1.Every recognized akc breed has a breed standard .Yep, even staffordshire terriers. Ethical and legitimate breeders will and should follow these standards. Before any non fuk wit human buys and or adopts they should study that info.
2. Not bashing rescues, but better dog testing and human matchups need work. All the backyard and oops breedings are imo the culprit for this mess.
Cletus thought fido was a great dog so lets breed your great dog to mine and we can make a few hundred bucks per pup. Great. But what cletus didn't know was that good little fido had a parent or grandparent with tempermant issues or hip problems or terrible allergies.......the list goes on.
3. Unfortunately, even well intentioned people that just want a great family pet forget these living breathing creatures live a long time and don't do the proper research regarding any breed. Many shelter dogs are returned.
4. Raise your chances, find a legitimate breeder that studies pedigrees, tests their litters, completes all the proper health requirements, offers typical guarantees and will allways take the dog back at any age. A proper contract will stipulate all this and more. Good breeders DO NOT give someone pick of the litter choices. They will ask you tons of lifestyle questions, home environment, activity levels, personality etc. They may even suggest another breed based on your answers but they live and interact with new litters for at least a couple months and can place a dog much better then you picking that little cute one over in the corner.
5. Report the fuk wit humans that breed based on their own standards, knowingly fight or abuse dogs. Im done.

[lesslis2015]

One more thing.....sorry
The above is not cheap for the breeder or owner up front. But the pay off and possibly the slowdown of the current problems with certain breeds will eventually pay off. Ill pay a few grand for a great standard bred dog, train appropriately, and spend far less then those that thought the 200.00 cletus pups were so cute but end up like cujo with bad hips and attacked the neighbor kids.