[wmbondurant]

Originally Posted by Eddy Haskell ↗

Indeed. And just think, once the Trump administration sees an end to reproductive rights, public education, the federal minimum wage, and all of those profit-ruffling regulations, err, I mean job-killing regulations, there will be several million people to take the job of each worker killed in this backward country. "Thanks," Trumpsters!

Your so full of shit

[Eddy Haskell]

Originally Posted by cortdb ↗

To simplify my response to your well written, and brilliantly formed rebuttal. I will leave you with a few short things, in lack luster grammar and punctuation. Not because i'm uneducated, but because i don't want to spend 5 minutes typing and 5 proofreading just to look smart to someone.

Yours was a well-written and thoughtful rebuttal as well, cortdb; nothing much lackluster about it, really. So please permit me to lurk-about here at Calamity Central a bit longer; to eat with and socialize with our many houseguests before I hunt-and-peck a response to your calm, measured and thus very much appreciated response.

[Eddy Haskell]

cortdb: "First of all, I saw and heard Mrs. Clinton say 'We are going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business.' It wasn't twisted or taken out of context.”



True. At some point she did utter those poorly chosen words, those which - to her credit - she did apologize for (ever hear Trump apologize for anything?) But, although I do so thoroughly dislike Hillary Clinton, I know that it was not her intention to suggest that coal miners should simply be kicked to the curb. She is an extremely well-informed and sophisticated individual who understands that a Manhattan Project-like commitment to 21st Century forms of energy generation would provide more and safer jobs than do fossil-fuel-based forms of energy generation. ( http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/r...r#.WFbIlatln6Y .)



cortdb: "Also, you are still blaming the guns and laws themselves for the murder rate in Chicago.”



Actually I’m not doing that. I fully understand the fact that, (society-wide) and save for rates of suicide, the simple availability of firearms has precious little to do with rates of death related to the use of firearms; that, as an example, Switzerland sports the world’s highest per capita rate of firearm ownership while also sporting one of the world’s lowest rates of firearm-related murder. The difference here - as it pertains to the U.S. - is that Switzerland is a far more equitable society than is the U.S., which may be a point that is better suited for another time. Nonetheless, as per regional rates of gun-related violence, there is no doubt that the lax gun laws of sates such as Indiana most certainly do “serve” to increase the rates of gun-related violence within neighboring states with much stricter gun laws. ( http://america.aljazeera.com/article...n-chicago.html .)



cortdb: "Is it so hard to understand that only law-abiding citizens obey laws?...Murder is the worst crime you can commit, and it’s illegal in all 50 states. But when you read about a gun crime being committed and hear people say "ban guns" and "thanks NRA,” it's a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't solve any problem.”



As an avid firearm and reloading-enthusiast, I quite agree.



cortdb: "If someone is hellbent on destruction, making laws that hinder law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves, their loved ones and personal property, does nothing but make it harder on people that obey the laws. You have to see that.



Given that most criminals who use firearms use them against other criminals, and since instances of homeowners defending themselves and their family members with guns is exceedingly rare, I find such arguments to be less germane parts of the defense of the First Amendment. I deem the ability to defend oneself against a tyrannical government - i.e., the one to be sworn-in next month - as being far more pertinent. Too, even as a resident of the state of California (a state that is [alleged] to be hostile toward gun rights), it is my opinion that the whole Their trying to take our guns” argument is utterly bogus. I have been purchasing firearms, finished ammunition, shells, primers and powder for some forty years, yet never have I felt that the state is out to get my guns.

In brief, waiting periods, background checks and the (possibility) of gun show restrictions are not warning signs of gun confiscation any more than what vehicle registration laws are warning signs of vehicle confiscation. As a (responsible) gun owner, I stand supportive of not only the aforementioned laws but also mandatory liability insurance relative to firearms.



So I do see what you’re saying, cortdb. It is simply that we don’t agree cross the board, which is perfectly acceptable.



cortdb: "But if you did, you wouldn't blame the lack of gun laws in states around illinois, on Chicago's problem. It’s a culture problem in Chicago, and its not a gun problem. They have the cops scared to do their job as well.



Well, I will assert that Chicago’s problem has much more to do with the above-mentioned lack of equity within American society and that “cultural problem” is, with all respect due you, cartdb, coded language for “black problem.” But you are correct, lax gun laws in states the likes of Indiana are not to be blamed for Chicago’s high rate of gun violence. Indiana’s gun laws do, however, greatly exacerbate Chicago’s rate of gun violence.



cortdb: "Criminals don't give a shit about a law. Plain and simple.



True again. But it is also the case that many otherwise law-abiding people fail to give a shit about laws. ( http://concealedcarrykillers.org/mas...carry-killers/ .)



cortdb: "If they had to get them smuggled across the border, they will get them. Just like drugs. Funny how that works out.”



I agree. Yet Hawaii is in possession of the nations lowest rate of gun violence partly because of its very strict gun laws and partly because of the fact that it happens to be very difficult to smuggle illicit firearms into Hawaii. Funny how all of that water serves to help in that process, eh, cortdb? “Funny” how many of, say, Indiana’s gun dealers have opened shops literally within a very few miles of the Illinois-Indiana border.



cortdb: "Just for the record, there were a little over 14,000 workplace fatalities last year. If you would like to see mine fatalities, coal and otherwise, go to www.msha.gov It has a section called Fatalgrams that lists the accidents, and the cause. You will be hard pressed to find one where all current regulations were followed by the employee.



Yes, and one would also be hard-pressed to find a coal company that has not either broken with United Mine Workers and/or simply pressured its workers to ignore safety regulations in the name of profit. https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;...=RVMC_80801172




cortdb: "So we can agree on one thing, perhaps just enforcing the current regulations at work would save lives. But you have to ask at what cost.”



"At what cost” to be sure. Yes, we wouldn’t want to compromise the ability of coal companies to squeeze every penny out of their mines irrespective of worker safety.

Seriously, though, coal companies such as Massey Energy have so screwed the entire industry that even companies that have traditionally been more responsible vis-a-vis worker safety are now having to behave much like Massey in order to stay competitive and thus stay in business. These are not things that the corporate media will report, but they are nonetheless quite factual. ( https://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/...ne_cited_for_1 .)



cortdb: "At some point the employees have the ultimate decision and the liability lays on them in my opinion.”



Having represented a major-manufacturing corporation that undermined worker safety toward the expansion of its bottom line and as a matter of routine, it is my experience that that simply is not the case. Additionally, I am in regular contact with several attorneys and investigators whose experiences are much the same; that workers are often compelled to work in dangerous situations and/or with legally prohibited materials and to falsify safety reports that create the illusion of their not having engaged in these potentially deadly practices.



cortdb: “It's not the governments job to keep them from smashing their thumb with a hammer. (would you blame that on the hammer?)



The fact of the matter is that government agencies such as OSHA are being increasingly removed from the enforcement of vitally important health and safety measures - to the point to where that are now little more than paper tigers. (The idiocy put forth to the contrary by idiotic anti-intellectual pro-business (entertainers) the likes of Rush Limbaugh notwithstanding.)



cortdb: "And 25 safety meeting a day will not change the fact that someone is going to do it, until you have so many safety meeting that you have no time to actually do the job. Of course then someone would fall out of their chair and break a leg.(Would you blame that on the chair?) You know as well as I do, not everyone wants to wear PPE, and you cant run a business if you have to have monitors 1 on 1 per employee making sure everyone does."



Nonsense such as “25 safety meetings a day” are just that - nonsense. When such things are applicable, they are most often put in place at the behest of very large industries such as Koch Industries for the purpose of eliminating their smaller competitors.




cortdb: "If you haven’t read about the New England Fisheries being forced to have government fishery monitors, and PAY FOR THEM , then perhaps you should. That, my friend, is over stepping and over regulation.”

Again, these are for the most part laws that are put in place in order to benefit larger companies that are able to easily absorb such costs. Like laws that require toy manufactures to submit - to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) - several hundred copies of each toy they wish to market, these requirements are actually designed to put small-time toy manufacturers out of business. In fact, many of the attorneys employed by the CPSC, the FDA and other federal agencies were employed by the very companies they are charged with “monitoring.” And in many cases, they are also the very attorneys who write such legislation. Why? Because the revolving door that once stood between government and industry has been removed. And in its “stead” an archway now stands.




cortdb: "And your liberal way of thinking you're superior to everyone is why Trump got elected.”



Not true. Indeed, as a former employee of Bernard Sanders, I know that Trump’s election had a lot to do with the fact that, in the long tradition of false populism, Donald Trump usurped much of Sanders’ platform (e.g., that having to do with the elimination of NAFTA and still other nominal trade deals, the blocking of the TPP, the much-needed reinstitution of trade tariffs, the preservation and possible expansion of the Social Security program, the protection of the Medicare program, etc., etc.) Now of course Donald Trump has absolutely no intention of actually doing those things, but he did in fact use them as rhetorical campaign stances. As such, an as one who is staunchly supportive of the lot of those things, I am definitely not given to “thinking [I’m] superior to everyone.” Remember, too, cartdb, that I did not support Hillary Clinton, nor did I ever cast a vote in favor of Bill Clinton.



cartdb: "I hope you do have more money than I do. You just had to throw that in there lol I haven’t been brainwashed by any Koch guy your talking about and I'm not familiar with him. I do not follow Fox news, I don't use Facebook. I haven’t been brainwashed by anybody. am a free man, thinking on my own and can form clear and consistent thoughts without trying to downgrade or boost my self above anyone else. I am a man. That is all. I do not need others to think for me. I can read. I can understand statistics, and I fully understand root cause and effect.”



"I'm not familiar with him [Charles and/or David Koch]. That is interesting.



cortdb: "I suppose we will have to shake hands and agree to disagree on most things and I sincerely hope you have a good weekend.”



Yes, we will have to do that. I thank you for the polite conversation, cartdb. And I will give you the final word on this matter(s) should you wish to have it.



Be well.

[Eddy Haskell]

Originally Posted by wmbondurant ↗

Your so full of shit

Take it from an individual - wmbondurant - who clearly does not understand the distinction between the determiner "your" and the contraction "you're." Yes, nothing serves to negate one's argument better than one's tenuous grip on the English language.

[wmbondurant]

Originally Posted by Eddy Haskell ↗

Take it from an individual - wmbondurant - who clearly does not understand the distinction between the determiner "your" and the contraction "you're." Yes, nothing serves to negate one's argument better than one's tenuous grip on the English language.

Typical liberal dribble ..

deflect and bullshit ..

And it doesn't take away from the fact that you are still full of shit ..

[wmbondurant]

American Aljazeera. Good lord ,talk about disqualification..

[Eddy Haskell]

Originally Posted by wmbondurant ↗

Typical liberal dribble ..

deflect and bullshit ..

And it doesn't take away from the fact that you are still full of shit ..

"De[flection] and bullshit"?

What, exactly, did I deflect, sir or madam? The only thing that you wrote - that to which I responded to - was "Your so full of shit."

Please elaborate or, at the very least, write something that I would be able to respond to in a more complete fashion.
I await your erudite response.

[Eddy Haskell]

Originally Posted by wmbondurant ↗

American Aljazeera. Good lord ,talk about disqualification..

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/04/...-for-violence/



"CHICAGO (CBS) — On the heels of a weekend that saw at least 37 people shot in Chicago – four of them fatally – Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said “lax state and federal gun laws” leave officers “running on a hamster wheel” in efforts to reduce gun violence.”

I’m rather certain that Police Supt. Garry McCarthy is a paid agent of Al Jazeera.

[wmbondurant]

Trump is not going to end reproductive rights. He wants to put a stop to late term abortions . That is not putting a stop to reproductive rights . Hence , you are Full of shit .
Cutting out Common core ,allowing more charter schools , giving the very poor opportunity to go to private schools and quelling the out of control teachers unions , will not destroy the public school system .
Hence , you're full of shit .
Trump will not get rid of the Federal minimum wage that only affects Federal workers ..
P.s. Federal workers have always made a living wage .Obama did this as a token example for the rest of the decimated middle class business owners to follow ..
Hence , poppycock.

Stop spreading bullshit and you won't get called names ..
Have a great rest of your day .

[wmbondurant]

Originally Posted by Eddy Haskell ↗

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/04/...-for-violence/



"CHICAGO (CBS) — On the heels of a weekend that saw at least 37 people shot in Chicago – four of them fatally – Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said “lax state and federal gun laws” leave officers “running on a hamster wheel” in efforts to reduce gun violence.”

I’m rather certain that Police Supt. Garry McCarthy is a paid agent of Al Jazeera.

Why don't we have these problems in Texas . Smarty pants. It's called agenda driven politics.. Garry McCarthy most certainly works/ worked for that dirt bag racist slave driver Rahm Emanuel and when McCarthy speaks of gun laws he talking about criminal law not necessarily Second Amendment restrictions ..
We all know Emanuels brand of politics or do we ? I take it your just spouting branded partisan talking points with a sprinkle of news facts hoping to sell your bullshit to us dummy's.
Laugh laugh laugh it out ..