Robber Stopped Quickly in His Tracks

philovan · #21 ● 02-18-2020, 08:08 AM

That's a very broad stroke of the brush. It definitely doesn't fit the criteria for a 1st degree murder.

And it varies state by state in the US as what is considered self defense.

In Kansas it's defined as this -

"A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that it appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such use of force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon such person's dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle."

The first guy fit that criteria in my opinion.. But let's say that I'm wrong. The guy behind guy #1 was reaching for his weapon as well. It could easily be argued that the owner was trying to hit guy #2 and took out guy #1 in the process. Guy #2 wasn't leaving until guy 1 was dead mid-air.

And again.. In Kansas at least.. if you're committing a felony (Armed robbery) and anyone dies during the felony.. the armed robbers would be charged with that death. So guy #2 would actually be charged with..... you guessed it. 1st degree murder.

Murica!

Just one quick question. Does Kansas have a separate declaration regarding the justification for lethal force, or does the one you quoted with respect to force simpliciter also cover resort to lethal force?

janzd57 · #22 ● 02-18-2020, 11:35 AM

I could be mistaken, but pic #2 is the perp's gun, some Para-Ordnance clone with what look like 9MM rounds made in CHrome or stainless steel. The store owner's gun appears black.

If the above is true, perp did bring a gun. Perp did appear to draw from the waist band, and in a manner consistent with drawing a weapon. I would not wait to see if a gun did in fact appear. Same difference as drawing from a waistband in a liquor store, bank, or convenience store.

We also don't know if the perp is a repeat customer. Store owner may have recognized him as not a friend.

mileslong · #23 ● 02-18-2020, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by philovan ↗

Just one quick question. Does Kansas have a separate declaration regarding the justification for lethal force, or does the one you quoted with respect to force simpliciter also cover resort to lethal force?

You're right. In my haste I posted the wrong statutes. I did however find the right statue and it's more on the store owners side that I had originally thought.

I'll post a couple of takeaways and if you want to read the rest, I'll post a link to the Kansas AG statutes.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent it
appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such use of force is necessary to
defend such person or a third person against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force.

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that it
appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such use of force is necessary to
prevent or terminate such other’s unlawful entry into or attack upon such person’s dwelling,
place of work or occupied vehicle.

21-5222. Same; defense of a person; no duty to retreat. (a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent it appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such use of force is necessary to defend such person or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force.

(b) A person is justified in the use of deadly force under circumstances described in subsection (a) if such person reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

(c) Nothing in this section shall require a person to retreat if such person is using force to protect such person or a third person.

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2019_20...21_052_0022_k/

https://ag.ks.gov/docs/documents/sel...rsn=516a2f2b_4