[dockman]

Originally Posted by XxMutilatedxX ↗

God damnit, I read it wrong... Fuck the parents of that woman I meant :l SHITTTTTT I screwed that up.

No problem

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

You seem terribly fucking confused about the definition of 'selfish.'

Staying around to make others happy until your sadness passes is a SELFLESS act.

Saying "Fuck how EVERYONE WHO KNOWS OR CARES ABOUT ME may feel, I am sad so I am killing myself and I don't give a fuck for how it impacts their lives." is, on the other hand, the very definition of a SELFISH ACT.

I mean, I'm real glad it cracks you up so much to see that people understand the basic definition of a word. It's fun to be easily amused. Makes lame parties and shitty Adam Sandler movies less torturous for you.

But it also makes you look ignorant as hell when you spout this shit all over a public forum, savvy?

I'm not even saying that it isn't a justifiable act. Or that there's anything inherently WRONG with being selfish.

But you fucking people trying to make suicidal fuckers out to be some sort of long-suffering, noble martyrs are absurd. Sure, it may be significantly better for them if they just died. But making that decision, while not caring about how it affects MANY other people, is a fucking SELFISH act. By the very goddam dictionary definition of the word. Taking actions for your own benefit or need, without considering the harm it may do to others, IS in fact the only functional definition of the word 'selfish.'

Christ, I love this place but the rank ignorance so frequently on display in this forum astounds me sometimes.

The definition of ignorance is assuming that someone with a mental illness is in a position to think rationally.

Is it selfish? Maybe from our perspectives, but are we the ones considering offing ourselves?

I'm pretty sure that unless you find yourself in that terrible situation, you wouldn't really be able to relate, and even then different people would react differently.......... Thus some people might be able to seek help, and others wouldn't.

[rob666]

I've known a few people that offed themselves, and I've never once thought "oh, what a selfish cunt".

I thought "damn, I can't imagine what a terrible place their mind must have been in" or "what if I could have said something"...... I know people that have battled mental illness for decades, and still fight.... To each his own

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

The definition of ignorance is assuming that someone with a mental illness is in a position to think rationally.

I'd be more inclined to say that the definition of ignorance is the assumption that all suicidal people are 'mentally ill.'

[Pyramid_Head]

No one can know how hard it it having suicidal thoughts. Being so fucking depressed that you feel like crying at random times. Suicide doesn't only hit people with "pathetic lives" it can hit anyone dealing with massive depression. Robin Williams hardly had a pathetic life yet he killed himself.

No one that commits suicide is in their right mind. People in their right mind don't commit suicide. Just my opinion from very personal experience.

[facing_reality]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

I've known a few people that offed themselves, and I've never once thought "oh, what a selfish cunt".

So strangely, I agree with all of you.

Again, this is a complicated topic, but while rob's statement might be true for rob, it is not the case for most people. Most survivors WILL feel that the person was selfish, & most survivors WILL feel angry at that person. It's perfectly natural. Grief is complicated. This idea of sympathy & sadness is one perpetuated by the movies; we expect people to act that way, so that's what they try to do. And because of it, they push that other stuff way down. But it's not fair.

Survivors are allowed to be pissed off at that person. Robin Williams' daughter wrote, "I'll never understand why he couldn't find it in his heart to stick around." You can add an implied "for me" to the end of that statement. You can also add a "fucking" in there somewhere. That statement is full of pain, anger, & frustration, & that ultimate question, "Why wasn't I good enough or worth it for you to stick around?!?"

And while I said that most of the time they can be treated, "most" does not equal "all."

They're not necessarily mentally ill when they off themselves. Please hear me out, because this is the hard truth. Cases like this lady, they're in emotional crisis. With meds & therapy, they can be helped. But once the emotion is passed, once the brain chemicals are stabilized, they can still make the decision. The power of that decision, the power of the mind --- of conscience, willful action --- can not be overstated.

They could've been in therapy, taking meds, & said all the right words. But in fact, they've just decided, & that's that. They might know it's not worth dying for because they've been told it 1,000 times, they've been shown the "logic," & they've repeated it back. But they do it anyway. And it is selfish. And it's hurtful.

Like I said, it's complicated, but to simply say "They were mentally ill," suggests that it's somehow their (implied) caregiver's fault; i.e. "They were just sick & you didn't help them!!!" "If only you had listened more!" or "If only you'd taken them to see [x] doctor!" etc. But that's not fair.

A lot of that anger & thinking "what a selfish cunt" is because you DID try all that stuff. Maybe you were pulled away from something important to go kick down their door, give them CPR, take them to therapy every day for a year, visit them in the hospital, etc. You devoted a huge chunk of your life to show them they matter, & then they put on this big act & do it anyway. Of course it pisses you off.

And the scariest one that people don't talk about? RELIEF. When someone who's made multiple attempts & has put you through this emotional roller coaster for years finally pulls it off, you're relieved. No more therapy. No more hospitals. You relax. Then you feel guilty because you're sure everybody will see that, & again, they'll judge you because of how they THINK you should act.

Like I said, the only word I can think of is "tragedy."

[Pyramid_Head]

Originally Posted by facing_reality ↗

So strangely, I agree with all of you.

Again, this is a complicated topic, but while rob's statement might be true for rob, it is not the case for most people. Most survivors WILL feel that the person was selfish, & most survivors WILL feel angry at that person. It's perfectly natural. Grief is complicated. This idea of sympathy & sadness is one perpetuated by the movies; we expect people to act that way, so that's what they try to do. And because of it, they push that other stuff way down. But it's not fair.

Survivors are allowed to be pissed off at that person. Robin Williams' daughter wrote, "I'll never understand why he couldn't find it in his heart to stick around." You can add an implied "for me" to the end of that statement. You can also add a "fucking" in there somewhere. That statement is full of pain, anger, & frustration, & that ultimate question, "Why wasn't I good enough or worth it for you to stick around?!?"

And while I said that most of the time they can be treated, "most" does not equal "all."

They're not necessarily mentally ill when they off themselves. Please hear me out, because this is the hard truth. Cases like this lady, they're in emotional crisis. With meds & therapy, they can be helped. But once the emotion is passed, once the brain chemicals are stabilized, they can still make the decision. The power of that decision, the power of the mind --- of conscience, willful action --- can not be overstated.

They could've been in therapy, taking meds, & said all the right words. But in fact, they've just decided, & that's that. They might know it's not worth dying for because they've been told it 1,000 times, they've been shown the "logic," & they've repeated it back. But they do it anyway. And it is selfish. And it's hurtful.

Like I said, it's complicated, but to simply say "They were mentally ill," suggests that it's somehow their (implied) caregiver's fault; i.e. "They were just sick & you didn't help them!!!" "If only you had listened more!" or "If only you'd taken them to see [x] doctor!" etc. But that's not fair.

A lot of that anger & thinking "what a selfish cunt" is because you DID try all that stuff. Maybe you were pulled away from something important to go kick down their door, give them CPR, take them to therapy every day for a year, visit them in the hospital, etc. You devoted a huge chunk of your life to show them they matter, & then they put on this big act & do it anyway. Of course it pisses you off.

And the scariest one that people don't talk about? RELIEF. When someone who's made multiple attempts & has put you through this emotional roller coaster for years finally pulls it off, you're relieved. No more therapy. No more hospitals. You relax. Then you feel guilty because you're sure everybody will see that, & again, they'll judge you because of how they THINK you should act.

Like I said, the only word I can think of is "tragedy."

Very well said.

[xCellarxDoorx]

She was kinda cute. Kinda.

[circleof_hatred]

Look like she was swimming or doing some weird jihad dance

[rahulmoddy]

Originally Posted by gboy69 ↗

she willingly put herself in a position that

a) she had no earthly idea where she would end up
and
b) a huge percentage of the population is scared to death of

and you call her cowardly??

there are many words to describe her, but cowardly is not one of them

I still stand by my word and opinion
One who stands his ground,fights and win is the CHAMPION
One who stand his ground ,fight and lose is the FIGHTER..
One who runs away is a COWARD..
Suicide is a selfish and cowardly act ..that is all I have to say..