[Necrotic Bowel]

So, like, does no one else find it odd that some dude has a fucking Howitzer shell in the first place?


What was he going to do with it?

Launch it at his next door neighbors dog for barking at night?

The world is getting stranger by the second

[William May]

Originally Posted by Necrotic Bowel ↗

So, like, does no one else find it odd that some dude has a fucking Howitzer shell in the first place?


What was he going to do with it?

Launch it at his next door neighbors dog for barking at night?

The world is getting stranger by the second

It's just the detritus that everyone left after WWII. It never got picked up. WWII stuff is still being scavenged all over the world.

[Spiffyfable]

Not a gentle touch

[Legalscatboy]

Washed out of EOD school

[albie54]

Originally Posted by William May ↗

I used to be very interested in the Afrika Korps, the military unit lead by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, during WWII. I read a bunch of books about the desert war in North Africa in WWII. I always wanted to go there and retrace the battle scenes and see what they look like now.

Silly me!!

The Germans lost, so never removed any of THEIR old ordnance left behind. By the end of WWII, the Egyptians were very hostile to the British, who soon pulled out, and THEY stopped all their efforts at demilitarizing the old battlefields. The U.S. never had any position in North Africa, and when Patton was done there, all the U.S. troops moved to Italy to fight there, so, again, there was no organized removal of WWII armaments.

Both the British and the Germans left HUGE areas of mine fields scattered everywhere there was fighting, or even possible fighting, in North Africa, in WWII.

During the 1960's and 1970's, Japanese car manufacturers bought all the old tanks and other military equipment that had been left there by the Germans, or abandoned by the British, but they never did any cleaning of mine fields. Their interest was in the high-quality steel the Germans left behind in the form of damaged tanks, trucks, and artillery pieces.

I found out about 10 years ago, when I was going to take a trip to North Africa to visit these places, that such visits are NOT RECOMMENDED! I saw one estimate that said that since WWII ended, over 12,000 farmers and land workers have been killed across North Africa, from Tunisia to Egypt, by walking across or trying to till land in former mine fields.

The Germans started sending teams to North Africa in the middle 2005's to start demining operations, and have been doing it since, but it's on a small scale. The British have also started sending small teams to do the same with their old mine fields. It's been proceeding slowly, but has recently gotten more urgent, when the British got the news that ISIS personnel were locating and harvesting German and British mine fields for the explosives, since they are still in perfect condition, and removing mines, safetying them, and then removing the explosive charges is very simple work, easy to do, and carries little risk because the mines are in as nice shape as they were the day they were laid by the Germans and the British.

So I assume these guys came across a cache of old artillery shells from WWII, and were just scrapping them. (Brass is VERY expensive right now, at about $8-$10 per lb. (I was going to stop at a brass supplier for my casting needs, and buy brass casting ingots, at a cost of $.89 cents a lb. if I bought 1000 lbs in ingots, at a place in Chicago, with my mom's U-Haul truck that I rented to move all her stuff down to Tucson in 1994. There was plenty of room in the truck, as she rented a HUGE truck, and we only filled half of it with her stuff. SILLY ME again that I didn't do it, because now that would be about $8.95 per lb.

Since all the easy WWII scrap has been gone in North Africa for years, these guys must have been digging to find the last pieces remaining, and wound up with a load of live ammunition.

I have long since canceled any plans to visit Afrika Korps battle sites, even though I have stupendously good British maps from the war, covering all the moves made by the British and the Germans. The Germans made good maps, but in defeat, a lot of the records were lost. The British made EXCELLENT maps. But a schmoe like me doesn't want to walk around in those areas.

So, another thing in my life that will probably never happen, just like dating Brooke Shields, or winning a night with Ali McGraw in a drunken bar bet.

Oh well. At least I kept all my fingers and toes intact.

[albie54]

You're a good story teller. That was interesting.

[BrownRock]

Originally Posted by William May ↗

So I assume these guys came across a cache of old artillery shells from WWII, and were just scrapping them. (Brass is VERY expensive right now, at about $8-$10 per lb.

Interesting. I have an old WWII brass shell from a 3”/50 cal ship gun. Thing weighs a ton. Maybe I should cash it in.

[AngelAssassin]

Originally Posted by William May ↗

I used to be very interested in the Afrika Korps, the military unit lead by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, during WWII. I read a bunch of books about the desert war in North Africa in WWII. I always wanted to go there and retrace the battle scenes and see what they look like now.

Silly me!!

The Germans lost, so never removed any of THEIR old ordnance left behind. By the end of WWII, the Egyptians were very hostile to the British, who soon pulled out, and THEY stopped all their efforts at demilitarizing the old battlefields. The U.S. never had any position in North Africa, and when Patton was done there, all the U.S. troops moved to Italy to fight there, so, again, there was no organized removal of WWII armaments.

Both the British and the Germans left HUGE areas of mine fields scattered everywhere there was fighting, or even possible fighting, in North Africa, in WWII.

During the 1960's and 1970's, Japanese car manufacturers bought all the old tanks and other military equipment that had been left there by the Germans, or abandoned by the British, but they never did any cleaning of mine fields. Their interest was in the high-quality steel the Germans left behind in the form of damaged tanks, trucks, and artillery pieces.

I found out about 10 years ago, when I was going to take a trip to North Africa to visit these places, that such visits are NOT RECOMMENDED! I saw one estimate that said that since WWII ended, over 12,000 farmers and land workers have been killed across North Africa, from Tunisia to Egypt, by walking across or trying to till land in former mine fields.

The Germans started sending teams to North Africa in the middle 2005's to start demining operations, and have been doing it since, but it's on a small scale. The British have also started sending small teams to do the same with their old mine fields. It's been proceeding slowly, but has recently gotten more urgent, when the British got the news that ISIS personnel were locating and harvesting German and British mine fields for the explosives, since they are still in perfect condition, and removing mines, safetying them, and then removing the explosive charges is very simple work, easy to do, and carries little risk because the mines are in as nice shape as they were the day they were laid by the Germans and the British.

So I assume these guys came across a cache of old artillery shells from WWII, and were just scrapping them. (Brass is VERY expensive right now, at about $8-$10 per lb. (I was going to stop at a brass supplier for my casting needs, and buy brass casting ingots, at a cost of $.89 cents a lb. if I bought 1000 lbs in ingots, at a place in Chicago, with my mom's U-Haul truck that I rented to move all her stuff down to Tucson in 1994. There was plenty of room in the truck, as she rented a HUGE truck, and we only filled half of it with her stuff. SILLY ME again that I didn't do it, because now that would be about $8.95 per lb.

Since all the easy WWII scrap has been gone in North Africa for years, these guys must have been digging to find the last pieces remaining, and wound up with a load of live ammunition.

I have long since canceled any plans to visit Afrika Korps battle sites, even though I have stupendously good British maps from the war, covering all the moves made by the British and the Germans. The Germans made good maps, but in defeat, a lot of the records were lost. The British made EXCELLENT maps. But a schmoe like me doesn't want to walk around in those areas.

So, another thing in my life that will probably never happen, just like dating Brooke Shields, or winning a night with Ali McGraw in a drunken bar bet.

Oh well. At least I kept all my fingers and toes intact.

It’s extremely sad that people can’t travel any place in the world under some guise of safety as a ‘historical tourist’. There’s many historic places I’d love to see, but never will because of ‘cultural differences’, we’ll call it, as well as physical danger like being blown up! Intentional or not!
I am really happy that those minefields are at least starting to be cleared!
I couldn’t imagine, as the government of a country, just leaving everything like that once the war is over. It shocked me when I first learned of just how much of EVERYTHING that we leave after a war/conflict!!! Tanks, trucks, helicopters, jets, big guns like howitzers… you name it! The receiving country (usually the country you were fighting…) could literally outfit an army with all the stuff we leave!
But seriously, every effort should be made to clear all explosive material, even if they just set them all off… I would think. Of course, now, about 80 years after they were set, during WWII, that’s probably just too dangerous.
But it would have saved these guys…

[William May]

Originally Posted by BrownRock ↗

Interesting. I have an old WWII brass shell from a 3”/50 cal ship gun. Thing weighs a ton. Maybe I should cash it in.

You might want to put it up for sale to a collector. I was watching a video on Youtube about a guy that had rebuilt a German 88 MM gun from WWII, and his bikini-clad girlfriend was filmed firing it. This was a couple years ago.

This last weekend at our local machinist's meeting, one of our members who lives a long way away and works at an electrical generating station near Springerville, Arizona finally attended after about 8 months of missing meetings because he is so far away.

Anywho, he is an arms enthusiast and a gun collector, and has quite a few machine guns of various types, many of which he rebuilt. He has all the federal licenses needed, has all the possessor paperwork, etc. He finally machined a new receiver after he got a license for it, for an M-79 grenade launcher, which were very popular in the Vietnam war. He used the original manufacturer's blueprints. He located a lot of surplus parts from various people he knew in the collector world, and had just finished assembling it, and brought it to show. Several ex-marines at our meeting knew what it was as soon as he unpacked it to show. They referred to it as a "Bloop Gun" because it uses a single .38 cal pistol shell for propulsion, and tosses a round grenade, slightly larger than a golf ball, with a maximum velocity of about 400 ft/second, in a gentle arc that you can drop within about 15-20 feet once you know how to handle the weapon. They were very popular in Vietnam because guys were fighting where the VC were between 50 and 20 feet away, and they needed a weapon that would drop a grenade very close to U.S. lines under full control, and this was that gun.

He only fires plastic rounds out of it, because the barrel life is VERY limited because it is made from aluminum, and barrel changes were frequent do to that fact. The plastic rounds he fires don't damage the barrel, and have a colored dust compound in them to show where they hit, similar to practice rounds. He said he has the "Destructive Device" licenses to obtain and fire the regular grenade rounds, but would never use them because he doesn't want to damage the barrel of something it took him 5 years to make. Plus real ones cost a lot, and so he sees no point in using them.

When I asked him where the guy on Youtube could find rounds for a German .88 gun, he just laughed and said "All over the place!" If you can supply the brass cases, there are contract loaders who will load your brass for any tank or artillery round on a per shell cost basis, and he said people comb flea markets for the brass shells that guys brought back from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. They advertise on Craigslist and also on gun forums for people that might have one or two for sale. They can be reloaded with no problem, as long as they are not damaged, and he said he knows guys that have had shells machined from scratch for tanks that they own. They also trade with each other, so a guy who needs .88 shells will trade brass for brass that fits a Sherman, or a British tank or artillery piece, or whatever they are looking for. He said he knows one guy who has 5 tanks (1 German, 2 U.S. and 2 British) and that guy has at least 25 rounds made up for each tank. They normally only put a dummy load in them, so they are not firing them at full power, because it wears out their barrels and is hard on the breeches. So they fire them gently to get more life out of them. (Tank guns have a firing limit on them, at which time they need to be replaced. An 88 might need to be rebarreled at 1500 rounds, A Sherman gun at perhaps 1000 rounds, etc, etc.) But because they only fire their guns once or twice a year, like at 4th of July parades or Memorial Day shoots, the only fire a few rounds per year, and since the loads are at minimum, just for smoke and noise, they don't wear their barrels too fast, or over-stress their breech mechanisms.

So that was all news to me, but now I learned something new.

I remember about 10 years ago, they announced they had a German WWII tank visiting down at Ft. Huachuca in Arizona, and would be firing it's gun, and there was an open invitation for people to come down and watch the festivities at their test range. I did not go, but I wish I had. I had always wondered, "Where the fuck did the guy find live shells to fire?" and now I know. You learn something new every day.

In the military collector's world, everyone knows everyone else, so it's a pretty tight little group, and if someone sees shell casings that they know someone is looking for, they will just buy them and give the guy a call, so he can come and pick them up. And likewise if the OTHER guy comes across something he knows someone is looking for.

P.S. Since I have been watching the Ukraine forum, I also found out from a guy in Turkey who was VERY familiar with the Russian Arms Industry, that Russian tanks need rebarreling every 1500 rounds, it takes 4-6 weeks at the depot level to rebarrel a tank, and in the year previous to the Ukraine invasion, the Russians had only rebarreled 167 tanks TOTAL in a one year period. So you have to wonder just how many tanks in Russia are being fired by crews that KNOW that their barrels are well past normal limits, and they must be crossing their fingers every time they pull the firing lanyard, because a barrel or breech failure usually kills everyone in the tank. He also told me what total tank production was in Russia, and it was something like 300 new tanks per year. So I am wondering when the Russians are simply going to run out of operable tanks, at the rate the Ukrainians are destroying them.

[ptorico60]

Yup, from a cargo truck to a flat bed truck in a flash.