[Susan]

I don't hate trans people. I feel sorry for them, having a personality disorder myself. I honestly believe after reading some literature on it, that it all comes down to self hate. Being somebody else makes them feel better - they believe. But most transitions fail. These people still take drugs to escape the emotional pain and lead high risk lifestyles. The treatment needs to change.

[SimoneFlen']

Originally Posted by DarkBrocolli ↗

My main problem is from where and why are we being conditioned to HATE. It seems that people on both sides of any fence have a better than average chance of hating someone of a different opinion than they are.

I don't hate trannys, I just find them repulsive. I have personal experience of this shit, so I'm not just being a knob. I don't, however, think that they should be killed just because they dress up like women. I do get pissed off at people who have to be modern + edgy + call these men 'women', they are not women. Even if they went through a sex-change, they are not women!

All the tranny lovers can hate on me + the other members as much as they like, they are the ridiculous ones. People need to stop supporting this messed up behaviour, these trannys need serious help.

[DarkBrocolli]

Originally Posted by Dahlia_Neda ↗

I don't hate trannys, I just find them repulsive. I have personal experience of this shit, so I'm not just being a knob. I don't, however, think that they should be killed just because they dress up like women. I do get pissed off at people who have to be modern + edgy + call these men 'women', they are not women. Even if they went through a sex-change, they are not women!

All the tranny lovers can hate on me + the other members as much as they like, they are the ridiculous ones. Stop supporting this messed up behaviour, these trannys need serious help.

I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned how people have a better than average chance of hate. There was nothing in your post that I saw as hateful. I just took the term of a mental illness, as a descriptor. Just like how the experts and professionals classified transgendered people up until recently. As I stated in my original post, it's not hard to see it as a mental illness, and for that matter it's definitely not something that is normal for the average human being. Most people do not have gender dysphoria, and treating it as something normal and something that does not need to be addressed is harmful to transgenders themselves.

I myself believe we should be pragmatic about these things. We need to focus on what is real and what is true. That who we are biologically and genetically is represented by our birth sex. No amount of surgery and social acceptance is going to change this. Mother nature's laws are immutable no matter how much we wish it were otherwise. However, I also believe that someone can have a mind of another gender, and that sometimes physical surgery can help. It seems to me that there are different kinds of truths. Real physical truths, and personal ones. The transgender persons mind is their personal truth, and they want it to override their physical truth. So for me the issue seems to stem from this conflict of truths.

I truly do believe that transgenders have different minds. In regards specifically to male to female transgenders. I am troubled by the fact that this female mind they possess will often times represent common female stereotypes. Woman are very different, and have many different ways of expressing their femininity. I never understood why these particular type of transgenders tend fall into a very narrow band of what is considered feminine. Same is true in vice versa.

Though yeah I just wanted to say again that I didn't mean to say you were being hateful or anything. I didn't point the finger at anyone, how could I without knowing a persons true intention.

[SimoneFlen']

Originally Posted by DarkBrocolli ↗

Though yeah I just wanted to say again that I didn't mean to say you were being hateful or anything. I didn't point the finger at anyone, how could I without knowing a persons true intention.

Of course, I didn't think you were. When I quoted your post in my answer, I wasn't having a whinge at you about what you wrote. It's very divided in here with regards to people's views on trannys. I do get rather irritated by the tranny lovers though!

[DarkBrocolli]

Originally Posted by Dahlia_Neda ↗

Of course, I didn't think you were. When I quoted your post in my answer, I wasn't having a whinge at you about what you wrote. It's very divided in here with regards to people's views on trannys. I do get rather irritated by the tranny lovers though!

Oh okay! I just got a little worried is all. Didn't mean to offend and all that. But yeah I think it's a divided issue everywhere. I'm just trying to make sense of all this the best way I can, and find some way to bring harmony to where there is a lot of conflict. But yeah I totally understand your position!

[Susan]

But where does the "natural female mind" begin and the "social constructs of a female mind" end? What would we all like to be, if society accepted it? The mind is a very complicated thing, and I believe in these cases it works in the same way as someone who picks up a sexual fetish during puberty (i.e. something in the environment whilst growing up plus traumatic events). Something during childhood makes these people lose their sense of identity or not even develop it at all properly. And I agree with Dahlia. I can not stand these trans men dance groups, acting all diva-ish and everyone wooping like it's great. It makes me feel sick and I'm sick of it being shoved down everyone's faces like we're all bigots. it makes you feel uncomfortable because men should not be dressed as friggin women.

[DarkBrocolli]

Originally Posted by slyksleevemuckyey ↗

But where does the "natural female mind" begin and the "social constructs of a female mind" end? What would we all like to be, if society accepted it? The mind is a very complicated thing, and I believe in these cases it works in the same way as someone who picks up a sexual fetish during puberty (i.e. something in the environment whilst growing up plus traumatic events). Something during childhood makes these people lose their sense of identity or not even develop it at all properly. And I agree with Dahlia. I can not stand these trans men dance groups, acting all diva-ish and everyone wooping like it's great. It makes me feel sick and I'm sick of it being shoved down everyone's faces like we're all bigots. it makes you feel uncomfortable because men should not be dressed as friggin women.

I think you are completely right about this stemming somewhere in their experience, either in childhood or sometime later. I personally don't believe there is a genetic component to this, and that this is an effect of some environmental aspect. I can't say for sure what the cause would be, but you may be onto something with the sexual fetish similarity. Though what could reinforce this kind of behavior, sexual stimulation is very rewarding from a brain chemical standpoint. What would cause an entire gender identity reversal. It wouldn't be immediate, perhaps it's a slow process.

I do think our society is definitely trying to push the envelope, and I think the feeling of being uncomfortable about it is entirely natural. One of the reasons why I think transgenders are being promoted is because some people are trying to normalize it, and force social acceptance for it through mass media. I feel they believe their intentions are good, but ultimately all it does is preach to the choir, and make everyone else feel....like as you said....that it's being forced down their throats. This isn't how you promote acceptance. Attacking people, and calling them bigots because they don't buy into transgender normalization demands, also doesn't work either.

I think if people were more relaxed about it and didn't go into attack mode over perceived slights against transgenders. There could be more room for discourse. I like your post and Dahlia's because they were both open, honest, and were presented in a way that was not emotionally charged. If any good is going to happen, we need more posts like this.

[kasapin]

Originally Posted by slyksleevemuckyey ↗

How the hell would you know when those photos were taken? Do you think they start off with lipstick? Then some eyeliner the week after? A dress a month later? WTF are you on?

I am on the reality pill.. I got eyes and can clearly see the disparities . Same like the Michael Brown and all the other shitheads who got offed . Always pictures show them as kids in order to outrage people and win their hearts or what not....
Anyway don't want to argue much more about this..hope you got where I am going with this.

[Moloko]

Men are not women. Wearing make-up, a dress and tucking your cock, doesn't make you a woman nor are you living life as an actual woman.

I'm sick and tired of men saying these trannies are women because it makes them feel more comfortable with the fact that they fancy some of the more "passable" trannies.

I'm also sick and tired of mentally ill dudes in drag demanding to redefine womanhood on their terms while telling women, usually under threat of violence, that we are not allowed an opinion.

[K53]

I hope to live one day in a world where all people are accepted, loved, and treated with respect.