[Rfneimad]

Tom Cooper

Ukraine War, 8 February 2023: ‘That Hill’ above Blahodatne
Hello everybody!

There are days when news are only making me mad. Atop of the earthquake-catastrophe in southern Turkey and (the forgotten and abandoned, but still populated by 3,5 million displaced refugees)) north-western Syria, yesterday was one such day and that for few reasons.

….that’s the essence of reasons for this — unplanned ‘update’ on the situation in the Bakhmut area.

While everybody in Ukraine was either busy celebrating one defence victory in the Vuhledar area after the other, or indulging in running a witch-hunt for Minister of Defence Reznikov (apparently with the aim of replacing him by one of ‘hand-picked self-promoters’), the last few days the ZSU has ‘rotated’ its units in the Bakhmut area.

Essentially, Ukrainians withdrew most of the garrison out, brought few fresh units in. Or rather: fresh units were brought into positions ‘behind’ (i.e. west), north and south of the town, very few sent into Bakhmut.

For example: one brigade was withdrawn from Krasna Hora and there was an attempt to replace it by another. In the other case, the 113th and the 127th Territorial Defence Brigades were brought ‘in’. The former of the two was deployed, together with elements of the 4th and 17th Tank Brigades, atop of ‘that’ hill over Blahodatne, north of the town.

Now, sure: the defences there were well-constructed by…. I’ve lost the count of what brigades used to be deployed there over the last 5–6 weeks. And behind them, there was a new defence line constructed atop of hills all the way from Vasyukivka in the north, at least to M03 in the south. But, as the commanders of the Soledar Debating Club must know by now — and that better than 1+1=2 — the Russians are carefully monitoring the movement of ZSU troops, and 19358% sure to attack whenever and wherever such a rotation is taking place.

That’s precisely what happened. Result: one Ukrainian battalion lost lots of troops in Krasna Hora — and the, completely ruined, village, too. And then another Ukrainian battalion was largely overrun and — much to delight of all the possible Putler fans in the social media — the ‘Wagner’ (where Wagner is claiming that, but one can not even be sure it was really Wagner) then advanced through both Ukrainian defence lines all the way along that hill in western direction, almost reaching the M03 and Zaliznyanske in the process…


Of course there was an immediate reaction of multiple ZSU brigades (still?) in that area: the 30th Mechanised and the 219th TD Brigades — supported by the 40th and 45th Artillery — counterattacked and cut the advancing Russians to pieces, restoring the frontline. So much so, the few Russians that reported the initial success, quickly removed their posts….and the Wagner and/or VDV/VSRF left behind dozens of bodies…


However, in turn the ZSU lost at least two M777s knocked out by the Russian artillery fire, at least two BMPs knocked out by ATGMs, and was too busy but to prevent the Russians from capturing the compound of the Miaskombinat, plus the School №10, in north-eastern Bakhmut.



To make sure: of course I’m nobody to say, and I can perfectly understand if some are already irritated by my ‘complaints’ about the ZSU’s conduct of this battle. And, I can understand if there’s some ‘higher aim’ in what’s going on there, actually unclear to me but obvious to those who are in command (whether in the GenStab-U, or the East OK, or is that Colonel-General Syrsky?). For example, something like ‘dragging the Russians into a trap in order to impose attrition upon them’, as frequently reported in Ukraine of the last few weeks. This was done, time and again already, and is all fine with me.

But: why then imposing attrition upon own troops — and then those of the Territorial Defence who have less training and aren’t as well equipped or experienced as ‘regulars’ of the ZSU….?

What’s the purpose of deploying such units to one of most critical sectors of the frontline? Is anybody there up the chain of command thinking what kind of repercussions is this going to have at the time the ZSU and the National Guard are seeking volunteers to establish something like 14 new brigades? What’s the message of such failures? ‘Come to us, so our super-clever strategists can spend you like cannon-fodder?’

Let me guess: that’s going to be sorted out ‘after the war’…

Care about your troops, gentlemen: every single one is a human being, with a name and family. If you can’t: please go and find yourself some other job.

[WonderMomma]

Media from Zelenskyy's visit to the United Kingdom.

1. "During his visit to the UK, @ ZelenskyyUa met with King Charles III. We are grateful to Great Britain for your unwavering support of Ukraine!"

2. ""And I will be leaving Parliament today thanking you in advance for powerful English planes" - @ ZelenskyyUa addressing British Parliament"

3. ""We have freedom, give us wings to protect it" - @ ZelenskyyUa presented the helmet of one of the best Ukrainian pilots with such an inscription to the Speaker of British Parliament. "

4. "A historical event"

5. ""Any aggressor who will try to push the boundaries by force, who will inflict destruction and death on other peoples...any aggressor is going to lose!" - @ ZelenskyyUa speaking to British Parliament "

6. ""I'm not saying there will be no more wars...Yet, it is in our power to guarantee with words and deeds that the light side of human nature will prevail" - @ ZelenskyyUa addressing British Parliament "

7. ""I would like to come and hug you, but I can't" - Bbc_ua journalist told @ZelenskyyUa."

[WonderMomma]

Phone call between Putin and Igor Plotnitsky, former LPR leader. English subtitles.

"The Joint Investigation Team to investigate the downing of flight MH17 has published an intercepted conversation between Putin and former LPR leader Igor Plotnitsky. The conversation took place on November 15, 2017.

The Russian president asked him about the course of hostilities, the economic situation and was interested in the initiative of former pro-Russian MP Viktor Medvedchuk to exchange prisoners. Plotnitsky complained about the poor standard of living in the occupied territory, and supported Medvedchuk's proposal.

This is the first publicized conversation between Putin and the L/DPR leaders."

[WonderMomma]

"Zelensky and Sunak today visited a military base in southern England to see Ukrainian troops training on Challenger tanks

Sunak also hinted that British Challenger 2 tanks will arrive in Ukraine in March and also announced the expansion of the training program for the Ukrainian military."

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Media from Zelenskyy's visit to the United Kingdom.

1. "During his visit to the UK, @ ZelenskyyUa met with King Charles III. We are grateful to Great Britain for your unwavering support of Ukraine!"

2. ""And I will be leaving Parliament today thanking you in advance for powerful English planes" - @ ZelenskyyUa addressing British Parliament"

3. ""We have freedom, give us wings to protect it" - @ ZelenskyyUa presented the helmet of one of the best Ukrainian pilots with such an inscription to the Speaker of British Parliament. "

4. "A historical event"

5. ""Any aggressor who will try to push the boundaries by force, who will inflict destruction and death on other peoples...any aggressor is going to lose!" - @ ZelenskyyUa speaking to British Parliament "

6. ""I'm not saying there will be no more wars...Yet, it is in our power to guarantee with words and deeds that the light side of human nature will prevail" - @ ZelenskyyUa addressing British Parliament "

7. ""I would like to come and hug you, but I can't" - Bbc_ua journalist told @ZelenskyyUa."

Zelenskyy is now in Paris

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Phone call between Putin and Igor Plotnitsky, former LPR leader. English subtitles.

"The Joint Investigation Team to investigate the downing of flight MH17 has published an intercepted conversation between Putin and former LPR leader Igor Plotnitsky. The conversation took place on November 15, 2017.

The Russian president asked him about the course of hostilities, the economic situation and was interested in the initiative of former pro-Russian MP Viktor Medvedchuk to exchange prisoners. Plotnitsky complained about the poor standard of living in the occupied territory, and supported Medvedchuk's proposal.

This is the first publicized conversation between Putin and the L/DPR leaders."

3+ years prior to this phone call MH17 got destroyed

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

3+ years prior to this phone call MH17 got destroyed

This video was published by the team investigating the incident. It's also the only known recorded call between Putin and Plotnitsky. I'm simply sharing it here... without my own opinions on why it's being published now.

[kellyhound]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

3+ years prior to this phone call MH17 got destroyed

A press conference was held in The Hague on Wednesday on new findings from the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) investigation into the 2014 downing of aircraft MH17 in eastern Ukraine.

At the time of the incident, investigators first showed a recording of a conversation between Putin and Plotnitsky that was allegedly “captured over a closed line” in 2017, three years after the disaster itself.

Investigators said this speech witnessed the Russian president’s “involvement” in events in eastern Ukraine. At the same time, this speech is not about the MH17 disaster, but about the situation and aggravation of the situation in the LPR in general, as well as the socio-economic situation and prisoner change in the republic.

The Dutch prosecutor’s office said that following Wednesday’s new investigation, the investigation into the MH17 case did not have sufficient evidence to initiate new cases.

The ministry also noted that the Russian president was involved in the decision to transfer the Buk air defense system to the DPR. However, they noted that Putin cannot be prosecuted as he has immunity as head of state.

I guess they maybe talked about it 3 years after it happened, thinking it was a secure line like some prisoners tell about their previous crimes to other prisoners?

Did you ask chatgpt yet about who downed the plane etc?

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

This video was published by the team investigating the incident. It's also the only known recorded call between Putin and Plotnitsky. I'm simply sharing it here... without my own opinions on why it's being published now.

I know, I just added it for context.

so the take home message is

Putin is responsible for the July 17 2014 downing of a civilian airliner because… 3.5 years later he spoke on the phone to a guy that was there?

I can see why they suspended their investigation if this is the kind of evidence they can come up with.

RIP to the civilians that were forced to fly over an active warzone though

[Faust]

Originally Posted by kellyhound ↗

I guess they maybe talked about it 3 years after it happened, thinking it was a secure line like some prisoners tell about their previous crimes to other prisoners?

Did you ask chatgpt yet about who downed the plane etc?

I just did for you and it is giving some conflicting info lol.

At what height was the airspace closed prior to the downing of MH17?
Prior to the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014, the airspace over eastern Ukraine was open to commercial air traffic and there were no restrictions on the altitude of flights. However, in the months leading up to the incident, there were increasing concerns about the safety of flights over the region due to escalating military activity. Some airlines had begun to avoid the area or fly at higher altitudes as a precaution. Following the downing of MH17, international aviation organizations and individual airlines re-assessed the risks associated with flying over the region and many elected to avoid it altogether.



And according to the JIT what was the ceiling of the closed airspace?

According to the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), the airspace over eastern Ukraine was closed to commercial flights up to a height of 32,000 feet at the time of the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014. The decision to close the airspace was made by the Ukrainian authorities in response to increasing military activity in the region. The JIT, which was established to investigate the downing of MH17, determined that the flight was shot down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system and that the missile was brought into Ukraine from Russia and fired from an area controlled by pro-Russian separatists.



What is a typical cruising altitude for the MH17 flight type of Boeing?
The typical cruising altitude for a Boeing 777, the type of aircraft used for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, is typically between 33,000 and 43,000 feet, depending on various factors such as wind conditions and the flight plan. At the time of the incident, Flight MH17 was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet, which was within the typical cruising altitude range for a Boeing 777. It is worth noting that at the time of the downing, the airspace over eastern Ukraine was open to commercial air traffic up to a height of 32,000 feet, which was lower than the typical cruising altitude for this type of aircraft. Nevertheless, many airlines had already begun avoiding the area or flying at higher altitudes due to safety concerns.

Here is where it gets interesting:

At what height were military airplanes taken out in the same week?
In the same week as the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on July 17, 2014, several military aircraft were also shot down in eastern Ukraine. The exact altitude at which these aircraft were shot down has not been publicly disclosed.

However, it is widely known that military aircraft typically fly at much higher altitudes than commercial airliners, in order to avoid potential threats and to take advantage of the greater operational flexibility that higher altitudes provide. As a result, it is likely that the military aircraft that were shot down in eastern Ukraine were flying at altitudes higher than 32,000 feet, the limit of the airspace that was closed to commercial air traffic at the time.


Would closing the airspace to commercial flight make military planes more vulnerable?

Closing the airspace to commercial flights may have made military planes more vulnerable, as it could have reduced the number of other aircraft in the sky and thus made military aircraft more noticeable to potential threats. Additionally, closing the airspace to commercial flights may have created a false sense of security for military aircraft, as they would have assumed that the reduced air traffic would make it less likely that they would be targeted.

This is why western governments allowed for civilian airlines to fly over active war zones IMO

While chatGPT is often trained to give the ‘correct’ answer, if you ask specific facts then it has to give you the information.

Like the general info is that the airspace was not closed. But if you mention the JIT then it has to answer you because every source that has the JIT in it probably did disclose that piece of information.

Anyway even with all its faults IMO chatGPT is 100 times better than a typical BBC or CNN article claiming the airspace was safe or some other garbage