[scorpion9]

"You clearly live in dream world and never even visited Ukraine. I know many people who directly lived there for years. Ukraine is hub of corruption and chaos. It's one on the poorest countries and west took advantage of it for many years. A lot of westerners are rusophobic and idealize ukraine as narrative dictates. They don't realize that Ukraine is compared to Russia, economically and in law like smaller and more naughty brother that is even more corrupted by the influence of the west. Especially democrats."

Ukraine is corrupt...yes...because Russia made it corrupt. My country was corrupt as well after we regained independence. All the Russia-installed puppets remained in the country and kept pumping money out of ex-occupied areas. My country went through the same phase. Bribing officials was the norm. Mafia ruled the country. Nightclubs and entertainment events were secured by soldiers armed with rifles.
It was a shit show. The difference between my country(Baltics) and Ukraine is that the Baltics made a firm commitment to align themselves with the west and adopt western values. Anti-corruption laws were put in place...police were held accountable, maffia and other crime syndicates were cracked down on hard and now...we are close to being an average western country. Western influence on Eastern Europe has been entirely positive. Ukraine was too tightly within Russian area of influence and couldn't get away from the corruption and all the Russian puppets/oligarchs who were milking the country. Just look at Russia. It is ruled by oligarchs who are above the law...its ruled by a dictator who can kill whoever he wants...it is home to the mercenary army which can shamelessly break the laws and take prisoners and murder them ... even though releasing prisoners or killing them like that is against the law. The level of corruption in Russia is staggering. If you want to say that some corruption came from the west and is the cause of some of the problems in Ukraine...then multiply the corruption coming from the west by 10 and that's what's coming from the Russian side.


"...Especially democrats."
Haha...this here tels me that you have been brainwashed by some kind of cult. Phrases like that are clear giveaways that someone is stuck in a negative meedia feedback loop and is lapping up propaganda like a starving kitty laps up warm milk.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

The level of corruption in Russia is staggering. If you want to say that some corruption came from the west and is the cause of some of the problems in Ukraine...then multiply the corruption coming from the west by 10 and that's what's coming from the Russian side.

Well said sir. More great points countering the most outlandish arguments we keep hearing ad nauseum and nearly verbatim from nearly every pro-Kremlin person here. I continue to be dumbfounded by it all, to be honest.

Such obvious, well known facts... yet little accountability, acknowledgment, or admittance. Instead and in principle, they dodge such things and point their deterring finger back to deflect. If they do respond to anything it's with outright censure, denial, and indignant self righteousness and condescension.

I also appreciate your point of view being from a Baltic country and having direct experience with "Mother Russia". Thank you for your insights.

[WonderMomma]

How do the people of Kyiv live without electricity?

They demonstrate to the Russians the main Ukrainian postulate today - "Without light, but without you..."(c)

[kellyhound]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

3. In this intercepted call, a Russian soldier tells his mother about tank friendly fire that killed 20 newly arrived soldiers.

[Wailode]

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by Wailode ↗

Everyone has an opinion, right or wrong & to put up a clip like this from a couple of youtubers trying to portray it as mainstream media & set it in stone as the norm, when its stuff put forward by a couple of nobody's & to suggest that everything is wrong with Ukraine re propaganda wise is laughable as your only pointing out someone's opinion & debatable fact rather than actual fact ha, DUMBO !

This confirms nothing as it's an opinion !

[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by Wailode ↗

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegatio...read-russia_en

Nice article. Straigh up lies denying atrocities commited on russian native speakers in last 8 years.
Some french journalists were even banned on reporting situation on donbass. No one sane can take this article seriously but yet here we have few examples. I bet some of this people would deny even holocaust in WW2 to fit their narrative and bubble dream and then have audacity to call it unprovoked war and act like innocent victims.

It touches only very surface of all problems and injusticies that caused the war escalation. Cherry picking what it sues them. I bet russians have also many false flag but that doesnt support idea that war happened on base of russian imprialism.

I saw first hand videos and stories about what was hapenning in that time. Lots of movies and documents were even banned because they didnt fit under west propaganda narrative. Some of them were made pre 2014. Thats how they basically do it. War on information from first day.

With what will they come next time ? Well, they can even say that those 14k deaths just popped out of air right ? Practically denying most of the false flags they created and ignoring terrorist attacks like pipe line or crimea bridge.

The “genocide” you’re describing is the military result of Ukrainians defending themselves from a Russian-backed insurgency that Russia has been using to attempt to steal Ukraine for decades. You cannot send arms and troops into a sovereign country, gin up an asymmetrical war there, and then claim it’s a genocide when your troops, and the civilians behind whom they hide, get killed.

But, on the topic of genocide, what about the very real one that Stalin, your Dear Leader’s spiritual precursor, waged on the Ukrainian people in the Holomodor of 1932-33. The Russians murdered more Ukrainians in those two years than the Nazis managed to kill Jews in any six years.

Is that your real underlying problem with the Nazis? You see them as ineffective amateurs?

With any sense of historical justice, the Nazis will finally be relegated to the dustbin of history and, when someone wishes to evoke the image of pure murderous evil, they’ll just call that person or group “Russian”.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

The “genocide” you’re describing is the military result of Ukrainians defending themselves from a Russian-backed insurgency that Russia has been using to attempt to steal Ukraine for decades. You cannot send arms and troops into a sovereign country, gin up an asymmetrical war there, and then claim it’s a genocide when your troops, and the civilians behind whom they hide, get killed.

But, on the topic of genocide, what about the very real one that Stalin, your Dear Leader’s spiritual precursor, waged on the Ukrainian people in the Holomodor of 1932-33. The Russians murdered more Ukrainians in those two years than the Nazis managed to kill Jews in any six years.

Is that your real underlying problem with the Nazis? You see them as ineffective amateurs?

With any sense of historical justice, the Nazis will finally be relegated to the dustbin of history and, when someone wishes to evoke the image of pure murderous evil, they’ll just call that person or group “Russian”.

"But, on the topic of genocide, what about the very real one that Stalin, your Dear Leader’s spiritual precursor, waged on the Ukrainian people in the Holomodor of 1932-33."

According to Russian history, Stalin was a savior...a hero...a saint. He did almost nothing wrong( i have actually heard these statements from Russians ).
The whole problem and source of the recent conflics between Russia and its neighbors is that they have rewritten their history...the side that wins a war can write the history. They simply dont understand the reality of the Russian occupation of its neighbours. If they did, then they would not have a problem with Ukrainians, Baltic countries etc honoring their ww2 veterans who fought on the german side. It would be understandable. If Russians understood the context of history, then they would apologize for making life so difficult for its neighbours that they saw German invasion as a better option of the 2 evils. Russians should also ask "why are there so many russians in foreign countries"? Why arent there 20-30% German population in Estern europe? Why not 20-30% Polish/Brittish/Americans?
The answer is simple. Deporting native populations and replacing them with invaders was a military strategy, to permanently occupy and Russify the conquered territories.
That way, Russia would always and permanently have a say in the politics of its neighboring countries...even if they became democracies one day.
The conflicts with Russian minorities we have now, are all part of a long term plan. If Russia wanted to fix the problem, they would do a total recall of all Russians. Offer all Russian speakers free housing if they return to their homeland. Wouldnt that be great? If people dont want to return to Russia...then what does it say about that "russian population"?
It says that they arent Russian...and Russia has no business pushing into their politics.

PS: i was watching interviews with Russians on youtube and stumbled onto this gem.
The elderly fuck says it all. She remembers the real history. She describes killing Ukrainians and then can't understand why Ukraine holds animosity towards Russia. You cant make that shit up.
Her mentality is spot on and describes the overall problem quite well.
She said that Ukrainians were offered Russian passport and they didnt want it, so they should be murdered for that. She doesnt understand that other nations exists. She doesnt understand that there are people who are not russians and dont want to be russians.
Im afraid Putin is also thinking the same way.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by iARTEMx ↗

Those russian cunts attacked my country so now we will teach them... Kiev in 72h
Some time ago was "Good muslim is dead muslim", now is "Good russian is dead russian". Thank all of you around the world for supporting Ukraine
P.S. Anyway I have a lot of vids from some Telegram and from my friends, maybe some day I will share them with all of you. But it is really some 200-300 vids.

Hello Artem... welcome to the RU/UA war thread section. I moved my response here to the discussion thread per the guidelines of the section.

Are you from Ukraine? Would love to hear your experience with the Russians regardless of where you're from. We have a few other people here who have also had experience with them.

Again, welcome.

[WonderMomma]

Tidings in Ukraine for the holiday and some traditional dance moves.