[WonderMomma]

Saint Nicholas visited Bakhmut's children

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Rfneimad ↗

Duntez and Byla's daughter are the only pro-russians here who even make sense sometimes, not saying the pro-russian argument makes sense but at least they can express themselves.

Duntez might be the only pro Russian on here who has any maturity. Honestly I appreciate that he covers the Russian side even though he's nowhere near as active as earlier in this war

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Putin flew to Belarus today for the first time in 3 years. There is plenty of footage floating around of various stages of it all, but I'm not posting it all. Just thought this clip was interesting.


“You know the two of us are co-aggressors, the most harmful and toxic people on this planet” - Lukashenko

Who do we give the most toxic person of the year award then? I doubt that those 2 can share it.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Zelenskiy made a visit to Bakhmut.

[marekparek]

Originally Posted by Eggs&Spam ↗

If you knew anything about the history of Ukraine, you'll realize such a thing is .

You probably know something of history of Ukraine, that no one else knows. Please, tell us these secret information

[Eggs&Spam]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

"If you knew anything about Ukraine" - that's a common phrase from pro-Putin idiots on here, almost all of which are now banned.

You had a couple points in there besides the obvious falsehoods such as still comparing Zelenskiy to actual awful dictators. Wrong. You've been listening to some real shitty sources. Might want to check that out. Compare what you're saying with actual Kremlin/Russian govt talking points and you'll see that they're really similar. Go ahead and compare them, the resemblance is striking. "Nazism" is just used as a pejorative to emotionally rally the Russian people with what happened during WW2, what they call "the great patriotic war". Putin wouldn't pull a hair for "Nazis".

I was wondering when the Putinphile accusation was going to be hurled. I said both factions are at fault and the West exacerbated the situation.

Are these shitty sources to you? https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/11105...-political-par

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inks-to-russia

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-...sition-parties

You can argue it is justified but it begs the question of whether this is actually democracy. I'm simply saying it flies in the face of claims the country is this pinnacle of democracy when it historically hasn't been, and you made a flagrantly incorrect presumption about where I got my information from. And here's some history about fascism in Ukraine you probably didn't know about:

Stefan Bandera, considered the "hero of Western Ukraine" was a Ukranian paramilitary Nazi collaborator in WW2 who fought for ethnic cleansing of Jews, Poles, and any ethnic Ukrainian who opposed his ideology and organization. They directly participated with the Nazis in the Holocaust too. Tens of thousands dead as a consequence. (Today you can find various neo-Nazi statues in Western Ukraine memorializing these folks and many still do) Here's an interesting video, you'll notice a few similarities with a certain rally that happened in Virginia a few years ago:



Fast forward to 2014, the protesters fighting against the Maidan riot police in Ukraine had to ally with neo-nazi street gangs as street muscle because they were the most organized and willing to die for the cause. Since Ukraine had no real army, in come paramilitary neo-Nazis which were eventually integrated into the Ukrainian national guard in the form of various battalions including, notably, Azov. What's interesting is Ukrainians polled don't like these neo-Nazis but you can only do so much against a paramilitary force walking the streets. Much easier to use the threat of violence to maintain control. Now when Zelensky came to power, there was going to be a joint-television program featuring Russian and Ukranian networks, Rossia 24 and Medvedchuk. What happened next was the leader of Azov essentially threatened Zelensky by giving a veiled threat to the point of "We will be at your office tomorrow if this is aired." Within the day, the program was cancelled. That's their power. If these neo-nazi battalions, especially Azov, are so small, why are they being invited to Disneyworld and Stanford University? (which had a paper detailing Azov's neo-nazism). They're more powerful and influential than people give them credit for.

Some supplementary information about how fast people's sensibilities about neo-nazis changed: Years ago the FBI had a press conference in California where they announced arrests of neo-nazis who were training to go join Azov. What's even more freaky is around the same time, Facebook banned Azov BECAUSE they were neo-Nazis, but lifted the prohibition years later for the reason that they're fighting Russians. America also had an explicit policy barring arms sales for these fascist groups, but now it's been lifted.

You can be hardcore supporting Ukraine without celebrating neo-Nazis or make excuses for them. For some reason Azov and the neo-Nazis get whitewashed and it's puzzling why this is. u

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Eggs&Spam ↗

I was wondering when the Putinphile accusation was going to be hurled. I said both factions are at fault and the West exacerbated the situation.

Are these shitty sources to you? https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/11105...-political-par

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...inks-to-russia

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-...sition-parties

You can argue it is justified but it begs the question of whether this is actually democracy. I'm simply saying it flies in the face of claims the country is this pinnacle of democracy when it historically hasn't been, and you made a flagrantly incorrect presumption about where I got my information from. And here's some history about fascism in Ukraine you probably didn't know about:

Stefan Bandera, considered the "hero of Western Ukraine" was a Ukranian paramilitary Nazi collaborator in WW2 who fought for ethnic cleansing of Jews, Poles, and any ethnic Ukrainian who opposed his ideology and organization. They directly participated with the Nazis in the Holocaust too. Tens of thousands dead as a consequence. (Today you can find various neo-Nazi statues in Western Ukraine memorializing these folks and many still do) Here's an interesting video, you'll notice a few similarities with a certain rally that happened in Virginia a few years ago:

Fast forward to 2014, the protesters fighting against the Maidan riot police in Ukraine had to ally with neo-nazi street gangs as street muscle because they were the most organized and willing to die for the cause. Since Ukraine had no real army, in come paramilitary neo-Nazis which were eventually integrated into the Ukrainian national guard in the form of various battalions including, notably, Azov. What's interesting is Ukrainians polled don't like these neo-Nazis but you can only do so much against a paramilitary force walking the streets. Much easier to use the threat of violence to maintain control. Now when Zelensky came to power, there was going to be a joint-television program featuring Russian and Ukranian networks, Rossia 24 and Medvedchuk. What happened next was the leader of Azov essentially threatened Zelensky by giving a veiled threat to the point of "We will be at your office tomorrow if this is aired." Within the day, the program was cancelled. That's their power. If these neo-nazi battalions, especially Azov, are so small, why are they being invited to Disneyworld and Stanford University? (which had a paper detailing Azov's neo-nazism). They're more powerful and influential than people give them credit for.

Some supplementary information about how fast people's sensibilities about neo-nazis changed: Years ago the FBI had a press conference in California where they announced arrests of neo-nazis who were training to go join Azov. What's even more freaky is around the same time, Facebook banned Azov BECAUSE they were neo-Nazis, but lifted the prohibition years later for the reason that they're fighting Russians. America also had an explicit policy barring arms sales for these fascist groups, but now it's been lifted.

You can be hardcore supporting Ukraine without celebrating neo-Nazis or make excuses for them. For some reason Azov and the neo-Nazis get whitewashed and it's puzzling why this is. u

At what point did anyone try to say that Ukraine was some beacon of democracy? That's not a narrative I've even seen. I've been paying attention to this quite closely since before the war and I don't think anyone credible has the balls to say that. If they did I certainly missed it.

Why are you posting well published videos of these guys. And a readers digest version of Bandera. This is not news. We all know they exist and are things.

Even though these groups do exist and their beliefs are abhorrent, does that mean this country deserved to be invaded? No. Far from it. That's my position on this. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear earlier - no one is making excuses. But we've encountered four too many pro-Russian people/bots on here who have absolute Nazi fever and you reminded me of that. At least two of them were basically trying to say that because of any Nazis, Ukraine deserves every inch of this war. An awful thing to believe or say.

[WonderMomma]

No one is denying that far right nationalism exists in Ukraine. What of it? It's certainly not enough to merit a full on invasion by another country with a larger far right nationalist population. Russia needs to address their own "Nazi problem" before they accuse, invade and try to "liberate" Ukraine of their "Nazi problem". But the fact they are not even acknowledging their own issues from within is proof that it's merely an excuse to do what they're doing for the real reasons they're doing it... fear being the first reason along with wanting Ukraine's resources thereby giving them more power. It's past the point of hypocrisy... it's just straight up lies and bullshit and quite laughable by anyone with a set of eyes and a brain.

That methodology should mean Russia should invade every country on the planet with a mostly "white" population because nationalism exists in all of them.

You're using all these examples of Zelenskyy taking action or bowing down to "Nazi's" to prove a point that they exist... and AGAIN, no one is denying that here. I'm not sure how much clearer I or anyone can make that. This is a CLEAR pattern that all pro-Russian or anti-Ukraine people do here by default and I sound like a broken record.

I know it's not going to happen but everyone should take a few days to read through the discussion threads here to "read the room" before they dive in months later and start roboting the same tired arguments and discussions we've had in here ad nauseum. We're all aware of the "Bandera" argument as well. Asked and answered.

So... for the latest person to drop in well after the starting gun and parrot the same arguments as others; Ukraine is an independent, sovereign nation... it's current government and majority of citizens there want it to stay that way. Unless Ukraine decides to give up this independence and sovereignty and hand over their precious lands and people to Russia they will continue to defend and fight for it all with the help of their allies. The Donbas, Crimea, and all other territories currently occupied by Russian and pro-Russian forces.

You don't have to like it... but that's just the reality of current situation.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Zelenskiy made a visit to Bakhmut.

Another example of what I said yesterday... here you have the president of a country being invaded by mother fuckin' Russia... and he's in the place where fighting is the craziest right now. I don't know if this makes him foolish or commendable... but that man has the biggest presidential balls I've ever seen.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Another example of what I said yesterday... here you have the president of a country being invaded by mother fuckin' Russia... and he's in the place where fighting is the craziest right now. I don't know if this makes him foolish or commendable... but that man has the biggest presidential balls I've ever seen.

The guy certainly has a set. He could have made himself scarce but he chose to stay and fight. Regardless of what someone thinks of Ukraine, that's commendable.