[Katwoman]

Originally Posted by akham ↗

If you are in a flat spin the airflow isn't flowing over the control surfaces so they don't work properly (or at all). So a flat spin does not imply loss of hydraulics.

Loss of hydraulics absolutely affects a flat spin, even if that’s not the case here.

That said, I also misstated. Something prevented pitch and yaw controls from doing what they needed to do. Whether that was mechanical, environmental, or human, we’ll know soon.

The rudder doesn’t require lift to work. Using it in a flat spin is a necessary step to gain control of the aircraft.

Engines were still working, and my guess is that instead of cutting power, he increased it to try and pull out of the original stall. He then decreased power near the end, but it was too late.

Also possible, based on the sound, that the props were feathered, for some reason.

The flight speed had a major dip about half an hour before the crash, and then dropped significantly ten minutes later.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/fli.../SBGR/tracklog

Yes, I’ll modify my previous comment and state that something caused the airline to lose lift and then something prevented the pilots from using the rudder to help come out of the spin. Not much of a groundbreaking statement, I know.

[Katwoman]

something caused the airline to lose lift and then something

*airplane

[akham]

Originally Posted by Katwoman ↗

Loss of hydraulics absolutely affects a flat spin, even if that’s not the case here.

I'm responding to the message you wrote. You seem to be talking about something else.

[akham]

[zeloko22]

Originally Posted by Katwoman ↗

The rudder doesn’t require lift to work. Using it in a flat spin is a necessary step to gain control of the aircraft.

You don't know what you say.

[durt]

Looks like a stall-spin.
With enough altitude, it can be recovered.

In both clips the pilots are holding the aircraft in a spin condition using the rudder. Notice in the second clip, the student (?) is moving the controls around, and the instructor tells him to let go of the stick!
In most cases, releasing the controls, allowing the nose to drop, and applying opposite rudder will stop the spin and restore lift.

[Finksburg]

Whatever happened it looks like it was in a major stall.

[akham]

Originally Posted by durt ↗

Looks like a stall-spin.
With enough altitude, it can be recovered.

You overlook the rather important factor of the characteristics of the particular aircraft. Ability to recover varies from aircraft to aircraft, from relatively easy to completely impossible. So it doesn't make sense to refer to a video of a light single-engine aircraft and relate that to a twin engine commercial aircraft with heavy engines far away from CoG.

Juan (Tom) refers to this in the blancolirio video linked above, and so does the guy in the other video I linked.

[b0g]

I noticed the zig zag pattern in the speed, otoh the altitude was constant. smthing was early on wrong...

[KillingJoke]

Originally Posted by kellyhound ↗

All those seconds you're going down and you probably won't survive.

At the rate they were falling, probably felt close to zero G, and spinning… and probably able to hear the alarms in the cockpit:

“Stall Stall”

And near the end:

Whoop whoop
“Pull Up”
Whoop whoop
“Pull Up”

I imagine:

Some screamed in terror.

Some were too terrified and were paralyzed, unable to scream.

Some cried. Some prayed. Some were silent.

I have to imagine some got so nauseous they straight up vomited.

Others urinated or defecated as they stared out the window seeing the spinning ground rapidly approaching, their stomach clenching with fear, squeezing their lower abdomen like a toothpaste tube….