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I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here - Section 12

I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here 

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  #111  
02-22-2012, 03:52 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not... because that's the answer a lot of christians would give.
Sarcastic lol. I'm a non-believer.
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  #112  
02-23-2012, 12:56 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

Big bad John, where you at?
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  #113  
02-23-2012, 06:45 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

But fuck it. Some believe in God, some don't. For those who do not believe he is real, what do you think about the Bible Code ?

Who wrote it, when and how ?

I know about them finding shit in other books like Moby Dick, but is nothing like the Bible Code. Why ? The Bible Code keeps proving to be real, and almost everyone knows it can not be a mathmatical statistic. The odds are too high for it to be chance.

There, the damage is done now.

Thoughts ?
The only code on the bible is the UPC code when you buy it from the bookstore
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  #114  
02-23-2012, 06:32 PM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

Thanks everyone, I know I was risking the release of a shit storm with this, and everyone had been very respectful. I appreciate it.
  #115  
02-24-2012, 01:09 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

Big bad John, where you at?
right here??? Where ever that is.... Said my bit...
  #116  
02-24-2012, 01:49 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

right here??? Where ever that is.... Said my bit...
You asked me what about the bible is stupid, I asked a question... where's the explanation?
  #117  
02-24-2012, 01:55 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

It seems as though you get off on talking down to people with your perceived superior intelligence, but I suppose I can tread those waters.

There are many stupid things in the bible I could mention, but let's start with the most glaring one. The Virgin Mary. A virgin getting pregnant. Explain that one.
Cool. I like that one. You actually think it's impossible to conceive without sperm????

Please keep the following video in context... Or with a grain of salt if you don't mind the colloquialism.
<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ve9561eOeXg?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ve9561eOeXg?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
Ya...Ya!. I know! The video is extremely boring and goes into extreme detail. I just wanted to show a bit of the geneology of Yehoshua HaMashiach.
Here are some astounding facts on this topic.
On June 26, 2007, International Stem Cell Corporation (ISCC), a California-based stem cell research company, announced that their lead scientist, Dr. Elena Revazova, and her research team were the first to intentionally create human stem cells from unfertilized human eggs using parthenogenesis. The process may offer a way for creating stem cells that are genetically matched to a particular woman for the treatment of degenerative diseases that might affect her. In December 2007, Dr. Revazova and ISCC published an article[52] illustrating a breakthrough in the use of parthenogenesis to produce human stem cells that are homozygous in the HLA region of DNA. These stem cells are called HLA homozygous parthenogenetic human stem cells (hpSC-Hhom) and have unique characteristics that would allow derivatives of these cells to be implanted into millions of people without immune rejection.[53] With proper selection of oocyte donors according to HLA haplotype, it is possible to generate a bank of cell lines whose tissue derivatives, collectively, could be MHC-matched with a significant number of individuals within the human population.

On August 2, 2007, after much independent investigation, it was revealed that discredited South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-Suk unknowingly produced the first human embryos resulting from parthenogenesis. Initially, Hwang claimed he and his team had extracted stem cells from cloned human embryos, a result later found to be fabricated. Further examination of the chromosomes of these cells show indicators of parthenogenesis in those extracted stem cells, similar to those found in the mice created by Tokyo scientists in 2004. Although Hwang deceived the world about being the first to create artificially cloned human embryos, he did contribute a major breakthrough to stem cell research by creating human embryos using parthenogenesis.[54] Although the truth about the results of Hwang's work was just discovered, those embryos were created by him and his team before February 2004, making Hwang the first, unknowingly, to perform the process of parthenogenesis to create a human embryo and ultimately a human parthenogenetic stem cell line successfully.
So it is possible from even a secular point of view for a human to be formed without the use of sperm.

Scientists Eye 'Virgin Birth' Phenomenon
It's called parthenogenesis — Greek for "virgin birth." Now a few scientists are trying to take males out of the human equation as well, not to create babies but to develop stem cells for medical research.

The hope is to trick human eggs into believing they've been fertilized.

The ultimate goal is to harvest human embryonic stem cells without fertilized eggs or cloned embryos, the two most popular and controversial methods of doing such research.

Some researchers view parthenogenesis as a defense against complaints that their work is unethical.

"This eliminates the cloning controversy," said Dr. Robert Lanza of Worcester, Mass.-based Advanced Cell Technology. Lanza said his company has succeeded in growing days-old embryos through parthenogenesis.

Human egg cells can be duped with chemicals and electric shocks to begin growing like embryos, which are coveted as stem cell sources. Researchers have harvested stem cells from unfertilized mouse and monkey eggs that were coaxed to grow through parthenogenesis.

Lanza and like-minded scientists insist the technology can't produce babies. No mammal has ever been known to give birth through parthenogenesis, and mouse, monkey and human embryos created this way haven't survived for more than several days.

Stem cell opponents, though, use the same reasoning to argue that parthenogenesis may be even more appalling to them than cloning.

They suggest that the embryos died quickly because of genetic defects inherent in the process.

"These could be very severely damaged human organisms," said Richard Doerflinger of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "This is a very bizarre technique."

"We are interested in any new way to advance stem cell research without destroying human life," Doerflinger added. "But they haven't proved parthenogenesis is a solution."

Experts in the field stress that much more research is needed to ensure that stem cells produced this way are safe and effective for use in human therapies.

Still, they see promise with parthenogenesis. In the current issue of the scientific journal Stem Cells, researchers from Gaithersburg, Md.-based Stemron Corp. reported success in growing human embryos through parthenogenesis.

And on Wednesday, University of Pennsylvania researchers announced that they turned mouse embryonic stem cells into eggs, which through parthenogenesis began developing as embryos.

Embryonic stem cells hold great promise, and researchers have been searching for nearly 20 years to find a bountiful source for them.

Stem cells can grow into virtually any cell in the body, and researchers believe they could be used to grow new heart, liver, brain or pancreas cells which then could be used to repair ailing organs.

To make these new organ cells compatible with a patient, researchers say they would have to clone an embryo using the nucleus from a cell of the patient. The new stem cells would be removed and then grown into the target cells.

"The beneficial aspects of parthenogenesis is that it doesn't involve fertilized eggs," said Jerry Hall, an embryologist at the Institute for Reproductive Medicine and Genetic Testing in Los Angeles who calls the creation a "parthenote."

"By definition they are not embryos," Hall said.

Some supporters of this research, including Lanza, differ on this semantic point, saying the creations are clearly "embryos." And because these creations are destroyed in the process of harvesting the stem cells, opponents say this method too is akin to taking human life.

Hall has confined most of his work to mouse eggs because he lacks equipment and money needed to put real effort into human parthenogenesis research. The stem cell field in general is plagued by political, financial and scientific problems, including President Bush's ban on federal funding for research into new lines of stem cells. There are scant resources available for the still-exotic research.

Indeed, Stemron appears to be out of business.

The last known phone number is disconnected, directory assistance has no listing, and the company's Web site is down. Chief executive Arthur Mandell didn't return phone calls left on voice mail at a different company.

But before Stemron went dark, its researchers managed to publish the most advanced work yet involving human parthenogenesis.

The Stemron researchers said they coaxed five of 25 eggs donated by two women to grow to the point where stem cells are expected to appear. The researchers managed to obtain stem cells from one of the eggs, but the cells died after a few days.

David Prentice, an Indiana State University cellular biologist and foe of embryonic stem cell research, said no one knows how the science will develop.

"It's an open question whether this will ever develop into a live birth," Prentice said. "It ends up being a matter of technique, and eventually somebody might fiddle around and get a parthenogenetic birth."
So if I understand your question.. is it possible for a person to be born without a father.... ? In humans it seems this is almost nonexistent.
A decade ago, however, doctors discovered the closest thing to a virgin human birth ever recorded. They were carrying out tests on a boy who had mild learning difficulties and asymmetric facial features, but was otherwise healthy.

The tests revealed his blood cells were female, suggesting the boy was a chimera, a mixture of two different cell types. This is usually the result of the fusion of two embryos that would otherwise have formed non-identical twins - a phenomenon that may be relatively common (and which poses a delightful conundrum for those who believe in souls).

The boy, though, turned out to be even more unusual. What really amazed geneticists was the discovery that both the X chromosomes in his blood cells derived from the boy's mother, rather than one coming from the father as usual.


What seems to have happened is that an egg began developing parthenogenetically, but was later fertilised, resulting in an embryo that was a mixture of normal and parthenogenetic cells.
So it can happen. Whether it really happened for Yehoshuah or not... That's a matter of personal belief.
  #118  
02-24-2012, 04:32 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

I refuse ANY kind of Religion, for me its just a reason for War, Violence and Fundamentalism.
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  #119  
02-24-2012, 08:40 AM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...not-exist.html

Dawkins says maybe.
  #120  
02-24-2012, 12:29 PM
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Re: I Know I Am Stirring Up a Hornet's Nest Here

I refuse ANY kind of Religion, for me its just a reason for War, Violence and Fundamentalism.
Of course we all know from the past century that atheistic regimes were so peaceful and non violent. Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao. And the Age of Reason in France..before that. Oh yes. Atheism is so non violent. Since they kill all dissenters, soon, no one dissents. Problem solved.


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