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#202
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08-03-2011, 12:30 PM
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 grumpy old man Poster Rank:162 penis Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 9,555 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Quoted: 325 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
To understand why Japan lashed out, we must go back to World War I. Japan had been our ally. But when she tried to collect her share of the booty at Versailles, she ran into an obdurate Woodrow Wilson. Wilson rejected Japan's claim to German concessions in Shantung, home of Confucius, which Japan had captured at a price in blood. Tokyo threatened a walkout if denied what she had been promised by the British. "They are not bluffing," warned Wilson, as he capitulated. "We gave them what they should not have." In 1921, at the Washington Naval Conference, the United States pressured the British to end their 20-year alliance with Japan. By appeasing the Americans, the British enraged and alienated a proud nation that had been a loyal friend. Japan was now isolated, with Stalin's brooding empire to the north, a rising China to the east and, to the south, Western imperial powers that detested and distrusted her. When civil war broke out in China, Japan in 1931 occupied Manchuria as a buffer state. This was the way the Europeans had collected their empires. Yet, the West was "shocked, shocked" that Japan would embark upon a course of "aggression." Said one Japanese diplomat, "Just when we learn how to play poker, they change the game to bridge." Japan now decided to create in China what the British had in India – a vast colony to exploit that would place her among the world powers. In 1937, after a clash at Marco Polo Bridge near Peking, Japan invaded and, after four years of fighting, including the horrific Rape of Nanking, Japan controlled the coastal cities, but not the interior. When France capitulated in June 1940, Japan moved into northern French Indochina. And though the United States had no interest there, we imposed an embargo on steel and scrap metal. After Hitler invaded Russia in June 1941, Japan moved into southern Indochina. FDR ordered all Japanese assets frozen. But FDR did not want to cut off oil. As he told his Cabinet on July 18, an embargo meant war, for that would force oil-starved Japan to seize the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies. But a State Department lawyer named Dean Acheson drew up the sanctions in such a way as to block any Japanese purchases of U.S. oil. By the time FDR found out, in September, he could not back down. Tokyo was now split between a War Party and a Peace Party, with the latter in power. Prime Minister Konoye called in Ambassador Joseph Grew and secretly offered to meet FDR in Juneau or anywhere in the Pacific. According to Grew, Konoye was willing to give up Indochina and China, except a buffer region in the north to protect her from Stalin, in return for the U.S. brokering a peace with China and opening up the oil pipeline. Konoye told Grew that Emperor Hirohito knew of his initiative and was ready to give the order for Japan's retreat. Fearful of a "second Munich," America spurned the offer. Konoye fell from power and was replaced by Hideki Tojo. Still, war was not inevitable. U.S. diplomats prepared to offer Japan a "modus vivendi." If Japan withdrew from southern Indochina, the United States would partially lift the oil embargo. But Chiang Kai-shek became "hysterical," and his American adviser, one Owen Lattimore, intervened to abort the proposal. Facing a choice between death of the empire or fighting for its life, Japan decided to seize the oil fields of the Indies. And the only force capable of interfering was the U.S. fleet that FDR had conveniently moved from San Diego out to Honolulu. And so Japan attacked. And so she was crushed and forced out of Vietnam, out of China, out of Manchuria. And so they fell to Stalin, Mao and Ho Chi Minh. And so it was that American boys, not Japanese boys, would die fighting Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese to try to block the aggressions of a barbaric Asian communism. Now Japan is disarmed and China is an Asian giant whose military boasts of pushing the Americans back across the Pacific. Had FDR met Prince Konoye, there might have been no Pearl Harbor, no Pacific war, no Hiroshima, no Nagasaki, no Korea, no Vietnam. |
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#204
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08-05-2011, 05:55 AM
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 My Rank: LANCE CORPORAL Poster Rank:1826 Male Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 281 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Quoted: 23 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
On top of what utley said, the Japanese diplomats, Kichisaburō Nomura and Saburō Kurusu, were desperately trying to prevent war from breaking out throughout 1941 (and maybe earlier, but I cant remember). In fact, they were even willing to go so far as to meet the US's demands: to cede all territories (except Manchuria, I think) and make peace with China in order to prevent a war with the West (and have the embargo lifted). Sadly, Secretary of State Cordell Hull was an ass wipe and ignored the two ambassadors, making it appear to Japan that the US's sanctions were nothing more than acts of aggression. It's a little more complicated then that, but I do think Hull accidentally on purpose dragged us into a war. |
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#205
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08-05-2011, 07:26 AM
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 ★ Legacy Member ★ Poster Rank:110 Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 14,074 Mentioned: 44 Post(s) Quoted: 3720 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
There is absolutely no innocence on the Japanese side here. The Japanese were not willing to cede anything. They were completely high on conquest and were pushing for their dream of Empire. They were not going to stop and, in fact, were not stopped until outside forces from several nations stopped them. The desire to 'rule the world' is not a new one. If you will recall, the Nazis were engaged in the same pursuit at the same time. As was Italy to a much smaller degree. |
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#206
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08-06-2011, 01:19 AM
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 My Rank: SERGEANT Poster Rank:1036 Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 660 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Quoted: 65 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
Say what you want. Both Germany and japan were close to testing there own nukes, a fact. Does anybody think they would not use them on us? But the incendiary bombing raids we did were much more deadly but the japan military wouldn't surrender. Japan wanted oil to expand. |
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#207
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09-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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 My Rank: LANCE CORPORAL Poster Rank:3324 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 109 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
maybe america should stay out of other countries problems and let them face their own issues. america would have less enemies and the world would have more peace.
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#209
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08-18-2012, 09:22 PM
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 My Rank: SERGEANT MAJOR Poster Rank:304 Male Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,208 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Quoted: 419 Post(s)
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Re: May We Never Forget Hiroshima (B&W)
The bombs saved way more lives than it killed, Japanese included! Europeans, especially the British(not all), who love to use this incident to fuel their anti-American hysteria, seem to forget something important. If Japan had to be invaded, hundreds of thousands of troops from Europe, especially Britain, would have been taking part in it! The leaders of the allied nations, agreed to defeat Germany first and then focus on Japan. Thats why NOBODY in Europe complained about the A-bomb, when it happened!
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