[niknik]

The hyperbolic venting*demonstrates a lack of understanding of the role of politics in our government. Politics*are a series of negotiations in which sides offer alternatives until a consensus is built no matter how marginal.*These negotiations determine how we are governed.

The GOP is doing what politicians are supposed to do.*They are essentially offering to trade something that their audience generally doesn't like, increasing the debt limit,*for something that its audience wants, defunding Obamacare ("ACA"). In the world of politics, the Democrats should respond with an alternative, one which protects the ACA while providing more*party favors*for the Republicans such as approval of the Keystone XL pipeline, offshore drilling, or reductions in*pollution regulations. The breakdown in*this process comes from the Democrats who have refused*to participate*in*a political process.

The issue isn't the ACA as much as the President's belief that he can have it all. The president's position is nothing more than a political bet.*He is betting that the Republicans will have to fold under the pressure that*he creates.*He is betting that they have picked the wrong issue, and that he will win by holding his breath. Understand the terms of*the president's bet:*Americans lose until he wins.

His bet puts his politics above the welfare of the nation, and yet he has the temerity to blame the Republicans for the consequences. The consequences are serious for the*thousands of people*who have been furloughed.*These people have two weeks before their pay is cut.*The consequences are more serious for*those who depend upon*programs*reduced by the his intransigence.*
Bretton Smith

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

I'm sure if we pulled out of S. Korea prematurely (completely) , we would have revisited it as well.

Which is cheaper, security, or war

We're still revisiting it 50 years later...... There's still thousands of troops on the border.

Both war and security are extremely profitable...... The military industrial complex is reality.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I don't remember Bush giving a time table in Iraq. I remember the opposite, him refusing to give a time table and being criticized for not doing so. He's on tape stating leaving before the situation on the ground is capable would be a disaster. And he was right.

He's on tape saying the war would be over in 6 months.

He's on tape saying it would cost nothing financially.

He's on tape saying America would be welcomed as liberators.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

Modern tanks require specialized tank operators that have had training in the multimillion dollar piece of equipment they are using. The "ordinary citizens" that are supposedly rising up, don't posses these skills.

So yes, operated by Russians.

Russian nationals, or Russian soldiers operating under the command of Moscow?

There are people from all walks, and mercenaries from many nations fighting for both sides. Most of these mercenaries have extensive combat training, and so e would certainly have the expertise to run a tank.

If Moscow wanted Ukraine, it would have it with 2 days..... There would be no back and forth battle like we've been seeing.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

Saying it wasn't Republicans that caused the shutdown, .is on th Poo same lines of denial as Holocaust deniers. Republicans, threatened to, actually did, then tried to deny and shift blame. Not giving into terrorist threats, doesn't mean you caused the terrorism. Look up cause and effect if that evades you.

Make sure you read the article I posted above.

BTW you just showed how far left you are. Calling what is supposed to be a negotiation, a process where our government is SUPPOSED to come together and make a deal. Terrorism?

You're just too far out there. Conversation with you on politics reminds me of just how screwed we are.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

We're still revisiting it 50 years later...... There's still thousands of troops on the border.

Both war and security are extremely profitable...... The military industrial complex is reality.

We also have occupations in ever country we have ever took part in war with, That is just part of it, right or wrong it is our duty as "world police" to secure the situation.

People from civilians, to politicians didn't agree with that war, just as they don't agree on iraq. the difference is, no president has yet came a long and broke our reputation of honoring our stance on post war policies. Until Obama with Iraq.

Truth is, Obama played on the emotions of Naive Americans to get votes, now it is biting US all in the ass.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

He's on tape saying the war would be over in 6 months.

He's on tape saying it would cost nothing financially.

He's on tape saying America would be welcomed as liberators.

We toppled Iraq in weeks. And he or should i say his miltary advisors low balled the price and didn't anticipate the insurgency being so strong. But never did he say it would cost nothing.
And American soldiers were welcomed as liberators. By the Iraqi people. By the ordinary people. There's way more to that story. How Iraq got from being liberated to the brink of collapse. It's not as simple as just saying something is this or that way. Or these people feel only a certain way. It's very complex and varies from city to city and year to year.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Russian nationals, or Russian soldiers operating under the command of Moscow?

There are people from all walks, and mercenaries from many nations fighting for both sides. Most of these mercenaries have extensive combat training, and so e would certainly have the expertise to run a tank.

If Moscow wanted Ukraine, it would have it with 2 days..... There would be no back and forth battle like we've been seeing.

So you think Russia only wanted to protect Russians living in Ukraine? So they supplied fighters with tanks and surface to air missiles?
Russia has a agenda and it has nothing to do with protecting civilians.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

We also have occupations in ever country we have ever took part in war with, That is just part of it, right or wrong it is our duty as "world police" to secure the situation.

People from civilians, to politicians didn't agree with that war, just as they don't agree on iraq. the difference is, no president has yet came a long and broke our reputation of honoring our stance on post war policies. Until Obama with Iraq.

Truth is, Obama played on the emotions of Naive Americans to get votes, now it is biting US all in the ass.

The point of the UN was to have an international body decide right vs wrong, based on international laws....... The problem with being the self proclaimed world police is it's usually only based on self interest.

As far as breaking a post war policy, I don't know what policy you're talking about....... When you enter a war based on lies, with no exit strategy, obviously there isn't a policy..... The previous policy was to stay out of Baghdad, and let things play out at a distance ( gulf war 1 ).

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

We toppled Iraq in weeks. And he or should i say his miltary advisors low balled the price and didn't anticipate the insurgency being so strong. But never did he say it would cost nothing.
And American soldiers were welcomed as liberators. By the Iraqi people. By the ordinary people. There's way more to that story. How Iraq got from being liberated to the brink of collapse. It's not as simple as just saying something is this or that way. Or these people feel only a certain way. It's very complex and varies from city to city and year to year.

He did say it would cost nothing, he said America would recoup the financial costs through oil sales.

I don't care if some Iraqis welcomed American occupation, or if the mood changes from time to time, the bottom line is things were not as promised.