[AnneLea]

Trying to remember where I heard it that the USA is also at the bottom of world test scores in schools right now... also having something to do with the fact we have to pay for college...

[AnneLea]

Originally Posted by weeb ↗

I know that. I post hoping that he or whoever reads it learns a thing or two because this site is full of racists. Thanks AnneLea. :)

As my closest friends and family say: "I'm only racest against racists."

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by weeb ↗

Because the argument went like this:

1) I stated that it's much more than a religious thing, it has to do with political and economic reasons that push people to extremism.

2) You came in and insulted, then said that Iranians and Muslims should take responsibility before blaming the West.

3) I explained with examples that even the West acknowledges its involvement in the Middle East and Iran and its support for Islamists. Then I urged you to educate yourself more on the topic.

4) You replied with some ad hominem crap.

5) I posted some topics and books for you to educate yourself.

Even though the argument did focus on Iran an other countries with Islamic governments, using Iran as an example is perfect because it was a Westernized country before the West decided to help overthrow it and aid an Islamist regime in the Cold War. Plus, Iran's had plenty of glaring examples of democracy movements and rebellions for rights, and its women's rights record wasn't too bad before 1979.

But the main point here is that women's rights is a smaller issue within an umbrella of human rights issues that can only come about when a country is autonomous and has opportunities to grow economically and participate in the world as an equal and sovereign nation, something that has been denied to Middle Eastern countries for ages.

Remember that women's rights in the US only REALLY took off when the US was beginning to reach heights of power and had a greater involvement in trade and a greater say in world affairs and politics (20th century).

How you can not see the link between all this and what happens in Afghanistan is beyond puzzling. It's looking at the macro and micro at the same time, using examples from across the board to illustrate a simple concept, that regardless of creed or race we're all the same. Apparently too much to be analyzed by you, eh?

Your problem is you think you are the only educated one on DR.

Big mistake.

My points are that the previously "Westernized" Countries of the middle east, (actually the world) that have attained self rule have all regressed almost to the point of the dark ages.

It seems even you agree that things were better when the west was more involved in Iran's political decisions.

You can argue the point that this was all orchestration by the west if you like, but it's clear the time for these Countries to stop their self destructive behavior has long passed.

Eventually, all most become responsible for their own actions, regardless of the past.

The Islamic states, not all of which the west has been accused of meddling in, have a horrible record of human rights abuses and it needs to be brought to the light of day, as it has in this video.

There is no question that all Countries have their growing pains, one only has to look at the two world wars and the many revolutions that have caused millions of deaths in Europe during the last few hundred years to understand that it's not easy or pretty, but, The Islamic states seem to be regressing rather than progressing, a fact that even you will have to agree is problematic to say the least.

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by AnneLea ↗

As my closest friends and family say: "I'm only racest against racists."

Very nice quote about the US education system, you really shouldn't if you can't spell.

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by AnneLea ↗

Dude... weeb is probably more western than you will ever be.

How many damn times must he say he's an athiest before you'll think about learning that word and how it means he's definitely not a middle eastern man OR a Muslim?

He is defending Islam and their practice, I don't care if he is Muslim or anything else for that matter.

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by weeb ↗

I brought Iran into it because it's a good example of all that we are talking about. Iran before 1979 showed that Muslims can be just as free and liberal as Westerners. I do read your posts man. It's not hard to see that you call Muslims weak and backward. Religion is more or less a weak argument for the way people act. There are far more commonalities in people across the board than religious differences, and those commonalities have to do with economics an a drive for survival.

You just spew all sorts of "Middle Easterners/Muslims are weak and barbaric" crap and it shows your underlying racism. That's why this is getting dragged. I brought in the Wallace interview to highlight that the West has a hand in how things are going in the Middle East. And this Taliban movement. Remember it was the Good Ole US of A that supported these motherfuckers and gave them the power when the US was using Muslims against the Soviets. And the US still helps Chechens and other Muslim groups to keep Russia in check.

Again, women's rights is part of human rights, which is something that people can build upon when they have control of their environments and aren't fighting for bread to eat. I don't get why you think it' just religion. No amount of reverting to miniscule sections of the argument when you've run out of shit to argue will change the fact that you really have a dearth of knowledge about this topic in general and just decide to deride an entire group of people because of your own xenophobic tendencies. That's why I'm giving you a history lesson buddy. You're totally lost on the subject.

I never said any of the things you have in quotes or are trying to attribute to me.

Do you always lie when you are losing an argument?

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by weeb ↗

And one more thing. Don't drag others into it. There was a point in the beginning where I used the Wallace interview and posted that the West has had a hand in the rise of Islamism by direct and indirect support. You came in with the personal insults and racism. That's when it turned into a history lesson, and it was a history lesson made only for you, man.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I've never once mentioned anyone other than you.

[Zambini]

Originally Posted by weeb ↗

Thanks Anne, I try to keep up to date with these things.

It is sad how we treat others but it's an aftereffect of imperialism, after all. When the Romans were at the top, the Germans, the Persians, the Carthaginians, the Spaniards, were all "barbarians" even though Carthage and Persia had routinely militarily outperformed Rome and in many aspects had areas of their civilization which were far better. Empire does nothing but promote national haughtiness and ignorance. Even ancient Persia had its share of ignorance where it thought the Babylonians were barbaric. It's human nature.

OK, so you say that if Iran had the economic opportunities it would be a much better place, then you remember that at one time Persia( Iran) was a regional power and treated others wrongly.

Do you even think about what you are posting or just post so much "stuff" that you hope some sticks?

[Zambini]

Look, I gotta go, It's been great, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Here is a link to a Iranian/Islamic/Muslim/Persian video that is heart breaking.

http://www.documentingreality.com/fo...soltan-107810/

[Zambini]

The only Islamic country I have really liked so far in my travels is Turkey, and now that they have arrested the generals I have my fears.

Contrary to both your beliefs I have no hatred or beef with Muslims, the middle east is a fascinating place and I wish I could go more often, and to more places.

I DO have a problem with Radical Islam.