[JoeBlack666]

Originally Posted by hulk ↗

I've been through this site A LOT over the past couple of months. Seen tons and tons of cop shootings. Out of all of them, there is MAYBE 1 that I thought wasn't justified.

But this one is bad. Everyone keeps saying he reached for something and was consequently shot. Someone please tell me how you know this was the order of events without audio???? Everyone's so convinced! It looks clear to me that he was shot and then put his hands down to grab the wound!

I'd love to be proven wrong but so far the best retort has been "nope, you're stupid".

Someone educate me

[cortdb]

im starting to think i may agree with you, and why the fuck did the Agent JUMP in front of the damn truck when it went to the left of the road block. I see that shit time and time again, officers jumping in front of moving cars and then shooting at the driver.Its hard to know if he did it to shoot, or thought dude was gonna ram his truck, but its weird to see it soo damn much. I personally wouldn't jump in front of a moving anything that weighs that much.
However I dunno what happened here, I also heard he was shot as well as one other passenger before he even got out of the truck, it sure looks like he may be going for a pistol, but in photos on the net he wears a right hand belt holster, not a left hand shoulder holster or pocket clip, so he would be grabbing his guts where he was shot instead... I wasnt there , so i cant say for sure. Also it seems to me the agent that came from the woods is the one that dealt the Coup de grâce.
I cant say this is justified or not, but most situations i have seen on here, the target usually gets out, gun in hand and starts shooting, ive never seen one with his hands up and going back in forth between surrender and going for his belt. Its hard to tell from a birds eye view so until a lapel cam vid comes out its 50-50 for me.

[hulk]

Agreed, 50-50. Idk what happened but as you know, if something smells bad, it usually is.....

Being an avid gun guy, I'd bet everything I own that he didn't have a gun in a chest pocket. No one I've ever met carries in such a weird spot ESPECIALLY when it's a person thst consistently carries. He was known to carry his gun in a hip holster not concealed. One doesn't decide randomly to throw a gun in a different spot. It stays where it's always at...

I'm also greatly bothered by the fact that this was obviously well planned by the agents. Drone video coverage, concussion grenades, tear gas, road blocks, agents posted around the perimeter. If they were so well prepared why the fuck did they go right for the trigger?? They used concussion grenades and tear gas 5 minutes later. If he was so dangerous why the fuck was there officers out in the open and not under cover?

Like I said, idk what happened but this certainly smells like shit

[rob666]

Originally Posted by cortdb ↗

im starting to think i may agree with you, and why the fuck did the Agent JUMP in front of the damn truck when it went to the left of the road block. I see that shit time and time again, officers jumping in front of moving cars and then shooting at the driver.Its hard to know if he did it to shoot, or thought dude was gonna ram his truck, but its weird to see it soo damn much. I personally wouldn't jump in front of a moving anything that weighs that much.
However I dunno what happened here, I also heard he was shot as well as one other passenger before he even got out of the truck, it sure looks like he may be going for a pistol, but in photos on the net he wears a right hand belt holster, not a left hand shoulder holster or pocket clip, so he would be grabbing his guts where he was shot instead... I wasnt there , so i cant say for sure. Also it seems to me the agent that came from the woods is the one that dealt the Coup de grâce.
I cant say this is justified or not, but most situations i have seen on here, the target usually gets out, gun in hand and starts shooting, ive never seen one with his hands up and going back in forth between surrender and going for his belt. Its hard to tell from a birds eye view so until a lapel cam vid comes out its 50-50 for me.

The cop probably though that the truck was going to plow into his police vehicle. The deceased was fleeing police, and going pretty fast by the looks of it....... Split second decision on both ends most likely.

The cops are dealing with a guy that was armed, fleeing police and on record as saying he wouldn't be taken alive....... He reached....... IMHO that was suicide by cop, he wanted to be a martyr

[b0g]

shouldn't hide his hands when he had made treats of gun use

so now he know where that damn tax money the unholy federal government gets, is spent on.

[cortdb]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

The cop probably though that the truck was going to plow into his police vehicle. The deceased was fleeing police, and going pretty fast by the looks of it....... Split second decision on both ends most likely.

The cops are dealing with a guy that was armed, fleeing police and on record as saying he wouldn't be taken alive....... He reached....... IMHO that was suicide by cop, he wanted to be a martyr

I see your point too Rob. He shouldnt have even been reaching and he could've wanted to be a martyr. However i feel if he was wounded already when he got out of the truck then maybe that explained his reaching and i dont think he ever saw the agent in the woods until he shot him.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by cortdb ↗

I see your point too Rob. He shouldnt have even been reaching and he couldve wanted to me a martyr. However i feel if he was wounded already when he got out of the truck then maybe that explained his reaching and i dont think he ever saw the agent in the woods until he shot him.

True.

You can't tell if they shot him through the windows.

[facing_reality]

Originally Posted by hulk ↗

Agreed, 50-50. Idk what happened but as you know, if something smells bad, it usually is.....

Being an avid gun guy, I'd bet everything I own that he didn't have a gun in a chest pocket. No one I've ever met carries in such a weird spot

There's all kinds of deep concealment options. This was presumably his backup gun, & was a probably a pocket-pistol, mouse-gun, or (it seems) a sub-compact 9mm (i.e. S&W Shield, Taurus Curve, Ruger LC9, or Rohrbaugh R9.)

There's underarm holsters, offset belly bands, crossdraw holsters, & even quick-access deep concealment shirts where some buttons are false & secured with Velcro instead. So there's a lot of ways a draw could look like that.

To me, what it comes down to is this:

1) He shouldn't have made stupid statements about not being taken alive.

2) He shouldn't have run.

3) He should have kept his hands up, & stopped moving when ordered to, then complied with the agents.

He should never have reached for anything. Clearly they didn't just pop him as soon as they saw him. When his hands were up, he was alive, & he was still moving & being non-compliant. So that's the ultimate evidence right there: one can reasonably deduce that if he'd maintained his hands in the air, the officers wouldn't have shot.

For the record, I actually sympathize with the cause, but not their actions. Re-sentencing those ranchers for what should've been nothing more than a ticket & a fine is a gross miscarriage of justice, persecutory in nature, & "We the People" should care a great deal about it, because it could happen to any of us.

But in this case, it goes down as a clean shoot for the G-Men in my book.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by facing_reality ↗

There's all kinds of deep concealment options. This was presumably his backup gun, & was a probably a pocket-pistol, mouse-gun, or (it seems) a sub-compact 9mm (i.e. S&W Shield, Taurus Curve, Ruger LC9, or Rohrbaugh R9.)

There's underarm holsters, offset belly bands, crossdraw holsters, & even quick-access deep concealment shirts where some buttons are false & secured with Velcro instead. So there's a lot of ways a draw could look like that.

To me, what it comes down to is this:

1) He shouldn't have made stupid statements about not being taken alive.

2) He shouldn't have run.

3) He should have kept his hands up, & stopped moving when ordered to, then complied with the agents.

He should never have reached for anything. Clearly they didn't just pop him as soon as they saw him. When his hands were up, he was alive, & he was still moving & being non-compliant. So that's the ultimate evidence right there: one can reasonably deduce that if he'd maintained his hands in the air, the officers wouldn't have shot.

For the record, I actually sympathize with the cause, but not their actions. Re-sentencing those ranchers for what should've been nothing more than a ticket & a fine is a gross miscarriage of justice, persecutory in nature, & "We the People" should care a great deal about it, because it could happen to any of us.

But in this case, it goes down as a clean shoot for the G-Men in my book.

They were convicted in Court.

Just because you think your local Sheriff is the most powerful law enforcement agent in the nation doesn't make it so.

Public lands are just that- public.
I don't know why in the fuck anyone is allowed to graze private animals on public lands at all. It's leeching off the federal Government, the same Government they claim to despise.

Then there's the poaching........ I guess that's ok too?

[OhJstFkOffAlrdy]

The Feds shouldn't own land. It's a bad idea.

They were also in one hell of a hurry to release this video, it seems. Even with good shoots, LE generally keeps the video under wraps for as long as they can get away with it.