[flash88]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

MC Val - " в моем городе слишком много ворон"

Cheers am going through her songs now, shame I can’t speak Russian though ha ha

[duntez]

Originally Posted by flash88 ↗

Cheers am going through her songs now, shame I can’t speak Russian though ha ha

I put translation of this song at the end of page 4 I believe. Well I copy/paste lyrics in google translate

[duntez]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I think you're the one "tripping balls on mushrooms". You think NATO takes orders from businesses?

If you're going to make these kinds of claims, and insult people in the process. Then perhaps you should give a particular example.

I gave you my example.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by davebaron666 ↗

So you believe NATO is the good guys that you are ok to die for?

Wow, the level of ignorance of common people is terrifying.

Yes, NATO is the good guys. NATO isn't perfect.

But for the most part, if you are a soldier, you would be better served, to serve with NATO.

If you are an enemy force, you would be better off, fighting against NATO. (although you will likely be on the losing end, for the most part you know rules for engagement, Geneva convention and pow statuses will be honored more often than not.)

If you are a civilian in a war zone, you would be better off NATO being above and among your people.

Than say, Russia. As far as military strategy, Russia hasn't changed much since they marched on Berlin. And raped everything older than 12 years on their way. Just ask all the nations involved in ww2.

Maybe look at what happened to all the nations East of Germany, and all the ones West.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

I gave you my example.

Well then I must say you have failed to show a good example of big business ordering NATO into battle.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Well then I must say you have failed to show a good example of big business ordering NATO into battle.

Listen, NATO will always stand by political opinion regarding certain countries or people, don’t matter. And where there is a Political footprint there will always be big business interest as well. They are like omega and alpha. It is always been like that. I mean ur saying as if NATO was like a stand alone God that serves humanity.. I get your point on being a western world and serving as a soldier is better under NATO etc. But I’m saying while they do stand for western values it dosnt mean that NATO can not be used as a force to change regimes? To invade countries Cz of fake chemical weapons or w/e and then simply apologize for the invasion and millions killed becz, well we did a mistake ( David Cameron). Removed Husein, Cadaffi put chaos in Middle East.. They do what they were told to do , it’s just a simple war unit.
I didn’t say Russia better or anything, I said that NATO is no different. What’s good for you, might be bad for People of Livia, Iraq, Afganistán, Yugoslavia and so on.
Amazing me how people can believe that the whole Soviet Army was an army of rapists ... because 5,10 ladies said so? So if I’ll find 5,10 ladies from the Mid East saying that NATO army does that all the time in Middle East, would you believe that ALL NATO army is like that? Or just 5-10 mentally ill fuckers that deserve jail time? Ofc, it is much more interesting to read staff like that, rather boring facts about how people were greeting Soviet Army with flowers, smiles and tears of Hapiness, why nobody talk about that part here

[niknik]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Listen, NATO will always stand by political opinion regarding certain countries or people, don’t matter. And where there is a Political footprint there will always be big business interest as well. They are like omega and alpha. It is always been like that. I mean ur saying as if NATO was like a stand alone God that serves humanity.. I get your point on being a western world and serving as a soldier is better under NATO etc. But I’m saying while they do stand for western values it dosnt mean that NATO can not be used as a force to change regimes? To invade countries Cz of fake chemical weapons or w/e and then simply apologize for the invasion and millions killed becz, well we did a mistake ( David Cameron). Removed Husein, Cadaffi put chaos in Middle East.. They do what they were told to do , it’s just a simple war unit.
I didn’t say Russia better or anything, I said that NATO is no different. What’s good for you, might be bad for People of Livia, Iraq, Afganistán, Yugoslavia and so on.
Amazing me how people can believe that the whole Soviet Army was an army of rapists ... because 5,10 ladies said so? So if I’ll find 5,10 ladies from the Mid East saying that NATO army does that all the time in Middle East, would you believe that ALL NATO army is like that? Or just 5-10 mentally ill fuckers that deserve jail time? Ofc, it is much more interesting to read staff like that, rather boring facts about how people were greeting Soviet Army with flowers, smiles and tears of Hapiness, why nobody talk about that part here

5 to 10 ladies??

I like reading history, all sorts. I don't actually find it more interesting to read about rape. It happened though, on a scale that is unimaginable.

Its impossible to put a number on it, because it's not like the Russians investigated it. And in their wake, their was nobody to investigate them.


But to say their were tens of thousands of rapes, would probably be understating what took place. Even a red Army soldier was quoted as saying that they left like 1 or 2 million Russian babies behind.

Look at the suicide rates that happened. Look at them on the Allied occupation side vs the Russian side. That's incredible too. And in many cases were linked to the rapes.

And although I don't think Russian soldiers are still raping women like those days. They do seem to have a huge problem with independent journalist being embedded with them, or any watchdog groups.

I think what the Red Army did on the battlefield was amazing. And brutal and extremely sad at the same time.

Amerian troops made mistakes killed a lot of innocent people during that war. And those mistakes are public knowledge. They are taught in our schools, documentaries that are available to us.

Not in Russia though. They are taught as our grandfathers were taught. Patriotic rainbows wrapped around their history. They should have to face their dark past just as America has and continues to do.

If Americans were plucked out of our prisons, given a couple bullets and sent to the front lines to die. Not to fight, but their purpose was to die, whether it be by the Nazi's or being shot by their own country. It would be a huge black eye on our nation, on that war.

But not to Russia, they pretend none of that stuff ever took place.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

5 to 10 ladies??

I like reading history, all sorts. I don't actually find it more interesting to read about rape. It happened though, on a scale that is unimaginable.

Its impossible to put a number on it, because it's not like the Russians investigated it. And in their wake, their was nobody to investigate them.


But to say their were tens of thousands of rapes, would probably be understating what took place. Even a red Army soldier was quoted as saying that they left like 1 or 2 million Russian babies behind.

Look at the suicide rates that happened. Look at them on the Allied occupation side vs the Russian side. That's incredible too. And in many cases were linked to the rapes.

And although I don't think Russian soldiers are still raping women like those days. They do seem to have a huge problem with independent journalist being embedded with them, or any watchdog groups.

I think what the Red Army did on the battlefield was amazing. And brutal and extremely sad at the same time.

Amerian troops made mistakes killed a lot of innocent people during that war. And those mistakes are public knowledge. They are taught in our schools, documentaries that are available to us.

Not in Russia though. They are taught as our grandfathers were taught. Patriotic rainbows wrapped around their history. They should have to face their dark past just as America has and continues to do.

If Americans were plucked out of our prisons, given a couple bullets and sent to the front lines to die. Not to fight, but their purpose was to die, whether it be by the Nazi's or being shot by their own country. It would be a huge black eye on our nation, on that war.

But not to Russia, they pretend none of that stuff ever took place.

You know, there was a guy Bob Lilly, he was a historic from University of Kentucky and he managed to get his hands on archives of military tribunals of those days. Well, he counted around 14000 cases of rape that were carried by Allies forces in England, France and especially in Germany. You are saying that everything US soldiers did was/is known but yet, nobody had a courage to public this book "Taken by force" in US. First edition came out in France. Eizenhauer ordered to execute all the soldiers who had committed such crime and make it public in newspapers such Stars and Stripes, but yet, nobody was ( according to this book). Red Army for 4 years had to watch how Germans were slaughtering their women and kids. Burning them, making soap out of them, concentration camps, gas cameras....im sure you know it al.. In Russia there is no single family that war didn't affect. If soviet army had, lets call it excuses, to do so. What US soldiers were driven by?

Here is an example of what I was trying to say about NATO. Not better, not worse, the same.. But in our reality, seems like all countries ( NATO or that US has economical control of) and their media turned against Russia/Soviets history and while pointing their fingers in that direction, quiet frequently forgetting about what they have done. If you numbers are right and if this Bob Lilly is right then again, US and Russia are the same in a way of hiding darkest pages of their history, especially when it comes down to Army respect and honor of what they did over there and how much they sacrificed.

You know that in Germany there was a joke around that time" better Russian under me, then Yankee above me" - meaning better be raped by Russian, rather killed in a carpet bombing from Allies. I don't want to say anything with this, just thought I would say it. It doesn't mean that rape better or what ever, it is what it is.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

You know, there was a guy Bob Lilly, he was a historic from University of Kentucky and he managed to get his hands on archives of military tribunals of those days. Well, he counted around 14000 cases of rape that were carried by Allies forces in England, France and especially in Germany. You are saying that everything US soldiers did was/is known but yet, nobody had a courage to public this book "Taken by force" in US. First edition came out in France. Eizenhauer ordered to execute all the soldiers who had committed such crime and make it public in newspapers such Stars and Stripes, but yet, nobody was ( according to this book). Red Army for 4 years had to watch how Germans were slaughtering their women and kids. Burning them, making soap out of them, concentration camps, gas cameras....im sure you know it al.. In Russia there is no single family that war didn't affect. If soviet army had, lets call it excuses, to do so. What US soldiers were driven by?

Here is an example of what I was trying to say about NATO. Not better, not worse, the same.. But in our reality, seems like all countries ( NATO or that US has economical control of) and their media turned against Russia/Soviets history and while pointing their fingers in that direction, quiet frequently forgetting about what they have done. If you numbers are right and if this Bob Lilly is right then again, US and Russia are the same in a way of hiding darkest pages of their history, especially when it comes down to Army respect and honor of what they did over there and how much they sacrificed.

You know that in Germany there was a joke around that time" better Russian under me, then Yankee above me" - meaning better be raped by Russian, rather killed in a carpet bombing from Allies. I don't want to say anything with this, just thought I would say it. It doesn't mean that rape better or what ever, it is what it is.

I've read about that, and the rapes that took place in the Pacific theater. It seems American soldiers were alot more rapey in the Pacific.

I've read some female author put the number in Europe at nearly 200,000 rapes by Allied troops. But she has no proof to back that claim, and It's just an uneducated guess.

Americans were no angels. But if we were to compare, there is no comparison in the the numbers.

I guess the point being is it wasn't a common thing with the Americans. Those who did it had to hide what they did for the most part. They knew they could get in quite a bit of trouble for it. Even executed.

In the Red Army, it was common. And wasn't really hidden from superiors. And rarely did anyone face punishment for it.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I've read about that, and the rapes that took place in the Pacific theater. It seems American soldiers were alot more rapey in the Pacific.

I've read some female author put the number in Europe at nearly 200,000 rapes by Allied troops. But she has no proof to back that claim, and It's just an uneducated guess.

Americans were no angels. But if we were to compare, there is no comparison in the the numbers.

I guess the point being is it wasn't a common thing with the Americans. Those who did it had to hide what they did for the most part. They knew they could get in quite a bit of trouble for it. Even executed.

In the Red Army, it was common. And wasn't really hidden from superiors. And rarely did anyone face punishment for it.

200000? Idk maybe she is right? Cause we have 14000 only confirmed cases and you said it yourself that soldiers tried to hide the fact of raping, so how many more in reality? God knows... also look at the army size. By the end of the war Soviet Army was over 11 millions. Ofc not all of them were located in Germany but let’s say even if 5 millions vs how many allies 200K? ( D Day, dunno how much by the end of May 1945). So statistically if allies had same size army involved in this war as Russia imaging how much more women would get raped. Then let’s be honest, not just Soviets were Army of rapists, but Allies as well. Germans were scared of Russians more, well because they knew what they did to them and this fear had to do something with all this Soviet story madness too. They were first of all Christians, not some crazy ISIS radicals ( imagine 5 mills ISIS army in Europe, that would be interesting to compare..isn’t it).
Any how, I still believe that NATO is a war unit that gets orders from politicians driven by business interest, it could be oil or pharmaceutical interest ( like in Ukraine) and that if you call Soviets Army of rapists, then I would call ALL FORCES that were on one side against Germany rapists.