[30564U]

Wow...that was a very articulate and well written post...thank you. You said it far better than I ever could have, I'm still way too close to the emotions of being exactly where those two officers are right now. The last time I was in a shooting was over ten years ago and had nowhere near the anti law enforcement or racial tone of this incident, but it's a traumatic situation that goes on for years, even if you're cleared. Death threats from the bad guy's family and friends (read prison gang)...snotty tort lawyers, your own family members and friend's doubt, etc. It's a sucky situation for everyone involved.

You're right on target with the training issue. We're trained to shoot both center mass and in the head. We're trained to shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to kill. We're also trained to shoot until the threat is absolutely neutralized. This officer shot four quck shots, they guy dropped like a log and no more shots were necessary. That's how is should be, but sometimes four shots will not stop the bad guy, that's why pistol magazines hold more than two or four rounds. It all depends on shot placement, timing, intoxication (drugs or alcohol) level of the bad guy, the bad guy's physical build, the bad guy's adrenal levels, and the caliber of the firearm used. It just depends, sometimes two shots are enough and sometime twenty shots won't work. This isn't television or the movies, it isn't pre scripted and anything can happen. I really appreciate you taking the time to try and explain this incident, I sometimes just get irrated at how uninformed and blindly judgmental some poster are...and other just have an agenda to push.

[fattubbashit]

Originally Posted by Shakey ↗

Comply or die.

That's the problem that 3CPO the ex cop doesn't fucking get. Since when do you get to kill someone just because they don't do what a cop says.Only in dumb ass America.

Keep justifying killing people in the name of the law. It was the ONLY solution

[30564U]

Originally Posted by fattubbashit ↗

That's the problem that 3CPO the ex cop doesn't fucking get. Since when do you get to kill someone just because they don't do what a cop says.Only in dumb ass America.

Keep justifying killing people in the name of the law. It was the ONLY solution

I'm confused, what is your complaint? Do you think the police shouldn't have firearms or that they shouldn't shoot criminals? Or perhaps you just think we shouldn't have police? I don't get it...what is it that you feel is wrong?

[geminiman7]

Why are all videos like this blurry and shaky--and always go out of focus at the critical moments?

[Alcoholikgneiuz]

Man Salinas is crazy shootings all the time. Nothing surprising.

[tootsieflowrslave]

Originally Posted by 30564U ↗

Wow...that was a very articulate and well written post...thank you. You said it far better than I ever could have, I'm still way too close to the emotions of being exactly where those two officers are right now. The last time I was in a shooting was over ten years ago and had nowhere near the anti law enforcement or racial tone of this incident, but it's a traumatic situation that goes on for years, even if you're cleared. Death threats from the bad guy's family and friends (read prison gang)...snotty tort lawyers, your own family members and friend's doubt, etc. It's a sucky situation for everyone involved.

You're right on target with the training issue. We're trained to shoot both center mass and in the head. We're trained to shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to kill. We're also trained to shoot until the threat is absolutely neutralized. This officer shot four quck shots, they guy dropped like a log and no more shots were necessary. That's how is should be, but sometimes four shots will not stop the bad guy, that's why pistol magazines hold more than two or four rounds. It all depends on shot placement, timing, intoxication (drugs or alcohol) level of the bad guy, the bad guy's physical build, the bad guy's adrenal levels, and the caliber of the firearm used. It just depends, sometimes two shots are enough and sometime twenty shots won't work. This isn't television or the movies, it isn't pre scripted and anything can happen. I really appreciate you taking the time to try and explain this incident, I sometimes just get irrated at how uninformed and blindly judgmental some poster are...and other just have an agenda to push.

And thank you for giving a detailed definition of "deadly force" and explaining it on a factual basis.

I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience where that training had to be put to use. I suppose that is the risk associated with the often thankless task of having to directly deal with the dark side and unpredictable nature of hummanity, that no one in your position hopes to ever be confronted with. However, as you know from your own experience, people make choices either without the realization of what the consequences will be or with a genuine attitude of contempt on how their choices will impact others. Unfortunately, whatever that person decided to do was something you had no control over, nor did you have any control over what that person did to attract the attention of law enforcement. IMHO, I think it would be pompous and arrogant for me to decide whether or not you did the right thing or for me to claim that you did what you were trained to do. But I will say that he choose his own destiny which is something that he alone is accountable for and nobody else. The only injustice here IMO, is that his decision ruined other people's lives that, in all likelihood, didn't deserve it.

Other than that, it is easy for someone to talk a bunch of stupid shit about the proper way to deal with situations like that when they themselves have absolutely no concept of experiencing such things beyond what they see on tv or read about in the newspapers. Then again, as I mentioned before, there are no winners when something like this happens, not even the self-righteous morons who claim moral victory for themselves.

[fattubbashit]

Originally Posted by 30564U ↗

I'm confused, what is your complaint? Do you think the police shouldn't have firearms or that they shouldn't shoot criminals? Or perhaps you just think we shouldn't have police? I don't get it...what is it that you feel is wrong?

Cops need guns.

You are " legally institutionalised " by your ex job and country. You can't see out of your legal box. As long as a law says its fine, to you it's fine. Sheep with badges, unable think outside of brutal training.

I'm not in favour of any criminals. I'm not in favour of getting hurt on the job. I'm not in favour of on the spot death sentences. That's for the courts to decide.

On the spot murder is not the only option for an offender if a firearm is not involved.

[30564U]

Originally Posted by fattubbashit ↗

Cops need guns.

You are " legally institutionalised " by your ex job and country. You can't see out of your legal box. As long as a law says its fine, to you it's fine. Sheep with badges, unable think outside of brutal training.

I'm not in favour of any criminals. I'm not in favour of getting hurt on the job. I'm not in favour of on the spot death sentences. That's for the courts to decide.

On the spot murder is not the only option for an offender if a firearm is not involved.

Ok, that's a rational well thought out response. Of course I think you're completely full of shit, but it is a well thought out answer. So what's your solution? How do we, as gunslinging bloodthirsty Americans, fix the issue of "on the spot murder" by the police in the performance of their duties? Perhaps you're a devoute Christian or Buddist that abhors the taking of any human life or the use of violence on another? If so I completely understand.

[30564U]

By the way, please stop using "ex" in describing my former position. I'm an honorably retired 30+ year police officer or a former cop. I worked hard and suffered to earn that 30 years and that title. The term "ex" has a somewhat distasteful ring to it...and as you've said, I am institutionalized after 30 years of police work, so I supposed I'll always consider myself a cop and look at the world through a cop's eyes. Thank you.

[fattubbashit]

Originally Posted by 30564U ↗

By the way, please stop using "ex" in describing my former position. I'm an honorably retired 30+ year police officer or a former cop. I worked hard and suffered to earn that 30 years and that title. The term "ex" has a somewhat distasteful ring to it...and as you've said, I am institutionalized after 30 years of police work, so I supposed I'll always consider myself a cop and look at the world through a cop's eyes. Thank you.

As a former officer you know police uphold the law and set an example to the community as to acceptable behaviour.

When police openly kill citizens as a form of control don't be surprised when citizens with issues openly kill people.

There is no one answer. No magic bullet ( pardon the pun ). Gun control is a good start , but there is a snowflakes chance in hell of that happening in the US.