[chewbacca]

I don't know, if I work at a gas station and someone pulls a gun, I'm unloading the clip, reloading, and unloading again just to make sure he's dead...

[mrh2008]

Originally Posted by FuManBoobs ↗

Whether I think it's OK or not doesn't matter.

The point is that punishing people does not work and that environmental conditioning will cause abhorrent behaviours. That is not my opinion. That is what science tells us.

Removal from society to prevent someone harming others is a good thing. Prison environments however, are not so good.

You obviously do not understand my point of view yet.

I recommend watching the whole film to better understand.

I'd rather not watch the whole thing. Prison environments are not made to be nice, they are not hotels. They are made to store the most animals in the least amount of space with as little money as possible. One would think that if a person does not like prison, they would refrain from participating in acts that could land them in prison. I have no sympathy for criminals, whatsoever. They know what could happen if/when they break the law.

[mrh2008]

Originally Posted by chewbacca ↗

I don't know, if I work at a gas station and someone pulls a gun, I'm unloading the clip, reloading, and unloading again just to make sure he's dead...

Then you'd be in the same boat as this person. You can unload a full mag, but after that you'll most likely get charged. IANAL

[FuManBoobs]

Originally Posted by mrh2008 ↗

I'd rather not watch the whole thing. Prison environments are not made to be nice, they are not hotels. They are made to store the most animals in the least amount of space with as little money as possible. One would think that if a person does not like prison, they would refrain from participating in acts that could land them in prison. I have no sympathy for criminals, whatsoever. They know what could happen if/when they break the law.

Right, prisons are not made to be nice and so how can that help the people who are in there? Why would you want to help a murderer? Because from them we can begin to understand what creates them. Most people are not born murderers.

And thats exactly the problem. Prison and punishment does nothing to stop the behaviour when the environment causes it! Wouldn't you rather have an environment where the behaviour doesn't occur to begin with?

It's like asking a starving man with no money not to steal food. I know, drug dealers etc. are not doing it to stay alive but they are doing it due to their environmental conditioning. In a way it's as important to them as staying alive.

We don't need to have sympathy, like the doctor in the video clip I posted said, don't forgive them but don't condemn them either.

This must sound very crazy to you so I hope at some point, even if it takes a year, that you will watch the first 30-40 minutes of the full movie as it goes into some detail about why people do the things they do.

If I was to state my mis-informed opinion I would say to kill them all. I used to think the things were the way you say. Then I started learning more...I think you'll do the same.

[donutsalad]

That's garbage. They don't deserve to live anyway if they steal, rob, and hold a handgun sideways. It's like that garbage with people breaking into your house and getting hurt how they can sue you. If someone decides to threaten my life, and I can stop it, I would want to make sure they will never be able to do it again.

[mrh2008]

Originally Posted by donutsalad ↗

It's like that garbage with people breaking into your house and getting hurt how they can sue you.

AHHA!!! I was waiting for a point to mention this! In Arizona, a bill is in the works of passed to keep criminals that are committing a crime from suing the victims over injuries, both physical and mental. It's about time that a man can protect his property, self, and family without fear of being sued. Recently, Arizona is looking more and more like the wild, wild west and I fucking love it! We finally have SOME freedom... Be jealous CA, be jealous Chicago, be jealous DC. Even if this bill does not become law, I am a firm believer in "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six." (for the slower people on DR, I'd rather go to court and be judged by 12 citizens, then go to the graveyard and be buried by six.)

[mrh2008]

Originally Posted by FuManBoobs ↗

Right, prisons are not made to be nice and so how can that help the people who are in there? Why would you want to help a murderer? Because from them we can begin to understand what creates them. Most people are not born murderers.

And thats exactly the problem. Prison and punishment does nothing to stop the behaviour when the environment causes it! Wouldn't you rather have an environment where the behaviour doesn't occur to begin with?

It's like asking a starving man with no money not to steal food. I know, drug dealers etc. are not doing it to stay alive but they are doing it due to their environmental conditioning. In a way it's as important to them as staying alive.

We don't need to have sympathy, like the doctor in the video clip I posted said, don't forgive them but don't condemn them either.

This must sound very crazy to you so I hope at some point, even if it takes a year, that you will watch the first 30-40 minutes of the full movie as it goes into some detail about why people do the things they do.

If I was to state my mis-informed opinion I would say to kill them all. I used to think the things were the way you say. Then I started learning more...I think you'll do the same.

I fully understand your reasoning with this, but I do not and most likely will not agree on all points.

I believe I commented on the three strikes comment you made. In some instances, three strikes and your out may not be appropriate, I agree with that. If a man steals someones car three different times, I do not think he should be jailed for life. If he robs a bank three times and leaves no one injured, I don't think he should be jailed for life. When someone commits a non violent crime over and over again, I don't think that constitutes the need for a life sentence, we both agree on that.

The environment does not produce serial killers, it does not produce rapists, it does not produce child molesters. All three of these types of criminals chose the path they were going to take (unless they have a some disorder making them unable to control their actions) and if they will not or cannot change their behavior after a few attempts, then they should not be allowed back into the civilized population.

When a grown ass man takes the innocents of three different children, he should no longer be allowed any freedom whatsoever. He should not be allowed to take another breath. When he has his way with your wife, my wife or any other woman threatening deadly force THREE TIMES, he is CLEARLY not someone that we (I) want in society today. When he kills your child, my child or someone else's child intentionally.... over and over again, why would you want that man back out on the streets?

A man that rapes a woman at gunpoint and gets 9 years, serves his sentence and gets released, rapes another when he gets out and serves 13 more years before he is released and rapes a third does not deserve any chance of parole at all. He has shown us that he will not or can not stop, he knows it's wrong after serving 22 years in prison for doing it, yet he continues to do it.

You sound like a smart person, I imagine you'll come back to my side on this one.

I now must admit, after thinking it over, The three strikes law is GREAT in some cases, and not so great in other cases, but I still believe that a criminal is a criminal and should be punished, not pampered.

[FuManBoobs]

Originally Posted by mrh2008 ↗

The environment does not produce serial killers, it does not produce rapists, it does not produce child molesters. All three of these types of criminals chose the path they were going to take (unless they have a some disorder making them unable to control their actions) and if they will not or cannot change their behavior after a few attempts, then they should not be allowed back into the civilized population.

When a grown ass man takes the innocents of three different children, he should no longer be allowed any freedom whatsoever. He should not be allowed to take another breath. When he has his way with your wife, my wife or any other woman threatening deadly force THREE TIMES, he is CLEARLY not someone that we (I) want in society today. When he kills your child, my child or someone else's child intentionally.... over and over again, why would you want that man back out on the streets?

A man that rapes a woman at gunpoint and gets 9 years, serves his sentence and gets released, rapes another when he gets out and serves 13 more years before he is released and rapes a third does not deserve any chance of parole at all. He has shown us that he will not or can not stop, he knows it's wrong after serving 22 years in prison for doing it, yet he continues to do it.

You sound like a smart person, I imagine you'll come back to my side on this one.

I now must admit, after thinking it over, The three strikes law is GREAT in some cases, and not so great in other cases, but I still believe that a criminal is a criminal and should be punished, not pampered.

So if you don't think the environment produces serial killers how exactly do you think they come about? Are they born that way? Again, I'm not stating my opinion on this, only what science tells us is true. If you have evidence against it then I'd be happy to look at it.

As said before, removal from society to prevent someone harming others is a good thing. Personally, I wouldn't even wait for 3 strikes with something so serious. But to place them in jail and hope that they get beaten or mistreated will do nothing to help them or us better understand their conditioning. Most jails do not help, only worsen the situation.

If you put someone in a caring, loving, nuturing environment it will produce a caring, loving person. If you put someone in a environment where they have to fight all the time and not trust anyone...well, that is what you will get.

Punishment does not work and environment dictates behaviour. This is what science tells us. If we keep ignoring it in favour of mis-informed opinions that were given to us by our own abhorrent conditioning then the problems will not be solved.

As long as we call for punishment on anyone, how can we be classed as civilized.

[mrh2008]

I don't see any "science" that proves an environment forces a person to do or not do something. EVERYTHING is a choice made by each individual. I live in AZ, 100+ degrees for an average of 110 days each year. My environment does not force me to go swimming, I know how to swim, and enjoy it but I only swim a few times a year. My environment does not force me to do it. It amazes me that some people think we should reward criminals by putting them in a place that provides a "...caring, loving, nuturing environment..."

[TheCapn]

I agree..that is murder. He walks straight past the kid..who since it wasnt fatal would have been moaning or even unconcious. Walks back to where he was before and comes over and excecutes him. He could see it was a kid not some 30 year old man with an ak but a kid, fucking Vets like him create the terrible stereotypes you hear about.