[pwscottiv]

Originally Posted by Arevalosocom ↗

Cops so go straight to prison. Can't fucking read an address? In 2023 with Google maps and all the tech on earth. Glad wife shot back

Nope! They’ll give these guys a commendation and a raise probably! And your tax dollars will pay the many million dollar wrongful death lawsuit. There won’t be any consequences for the department or officers.

And THIS tyranny is why our Forefathers wrote our 2nd Amendment. These guys should be tried for murder and executed, but it’s unfortunately up to We The People to do that.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by exdeath ↗

Now swap sides. A cop was the first to raise a gun here and have an innocent person woken in their sleep staring down a barrel. That means cop was willing to die right?

That innocent person has just as much right to protect themselves as any cop.

A cops life is absolutely not any more valuable than another innocent civilian. People need to stop placing cops on a pedestal and treating them like they are better than the rest of us and get priority to live over everyone else.

Looks like you didn't read my answer and jumped straight into "gun lobby defense mode".

I explicitly said that:
"...if I weren't a cop and someone raised a gun towards me, id still shoot them."

So no, it's not about
"placing cops on a pedestal and treating them like they are better than the rest of us and get priority to live over everyone else."

It's about basic logic and thinking. If you put a gun into the equation, you raise the stakes to the maximum, and at maximum stakes, no one can afford a mistake and all sides are encouraged to shoot first and deal with the consequences later. That's why in most countries, police don't even have guns...and the ones who do, are only ever told to draw the gun when they are in grave danger.

This is yet again, a total fuckup on the part of US gun policy as a whole. It pushes so many guns into the population that police has to assume that your life is at stake...at almost every encounter with everyone. In my country, when someone knocks on your door at night, you open the door and ask "Whats the matter, why are you here so late. Do you need anything?"
And the police knock on the door, saying "This is police from x dept. and we are here responding to a possible case of domestic violence." They would then go on and explain what they are about to do, i.e "we want to talk to you and your wife, that's all."

So, no. I wasn't saying that cops were right....or that the guy who opened the door was right, or that cops life is worth more. I was saying that if you put a gun into the equation, then you escalate the stakes to maximum, so, be ready to die. It applies in all other situations as well. Even if there is a thief on your property. If you pull out a gun, know that he may do the same...and he may be quicker than you. He might have had no intention to do you any harm, and at worst, planned to run away empty-handed when caught. If you pull out a gun, you force the other side to fight for his life. Doesnt matter if that other side is a cop, a thief, or a random bystander who mis-reads the situation.

[eb54]

Hey the police are here better open the door with my gun in my hand

[Sentinel]

I wonder if the media are going to show this on the news alongside that Yarl guy who got shot at the front door this same week. I bet they won't, because it's inconvenient to the narrative. This is a 1-family Waco.

[bigbear8]

Originally Posted by notforgranted ↗

The biggest problem is you can have anybody banging on your door claiming to be police. Idc what you identify yourself as! Unless I see other proof you are an intruder! And from what I saw I during the shootings none of the police lights were on. Idk why cops insist on these stealth tactics

This is what boils down to for me. Why in the world do law enforcement feel it’s necessary to be so secretive in their movements. Yes, knock on the door, loudly. Yell that you are the police, loudly. Turn on your emergency lights and even use your loudspeaker if that fails. LOUDLY!! Use the tools that you have been allotted to make your presence known and unmistakable.

[bigbear8]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

This is yet again, a total fuckup on the part of US gun policy as a whole. It pushes so many guns into the population that police has to assume that your life is at stake...at almost every encounter with everyone. In my country, when someone knocks on your door at night, you open the door and ask "Whats the matter, why are you here so late. Do you need anything?"

I agree with this part 100%, but I’m not sure this take is realistic. America is what America is. That’s likely not going to change. The homeowner had very good reasons to immediately arm himself when answering the door late at night to someone claiming to be police. Where were the flashing lights? Where were the sirens?

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by bigbear8 ↗

I agree with this part 100%, but I’m not sure this take is realistic. America is what America is. That’s likely not going to change. The homeowner had very good reasons to immediately arm himself when answering the door late at night to someone claiming to be police. Where were the flashing lights? Where were the sirens?

I wouldn't say that "it was a very good reason"

If thieves went to rob someone and took the effort to do it at night, under the cover of darkness, they wouldn't knock and announce themselves. And police rarely goes to these domestic violecne situations with lights flashing and sirens blazing. Especially in a suburb. People were asleep. Cops aren't allowed to use lights/sirens in residential areas unless it's really necessary.

The guy should have kept his weapon hidden and door closed. If he was afraid, then he should have talked through the door and ask more info about why he is being visited. Or...call the police if he really thought he was in a life-threatening situation.
And I said before, cops should have communicated. US police doctrine is fully offensive and they don't practice communication and psychology aspects much. In most European countries, cops study psychology and communication much more and rarely need to draw a gun.
They are much more "human" in the way they solve problems.

Basics problem that causes dangerous situations between police and everyone else is the information vacuum.

The steps for a successful police encounter are:
1) Identify yourself. Nothing matters if the person doesn't know that you are cop or if they don't believe you are cop. If they don't believe you, show your badge. If they still don't believe you, let them call another patrol. There are real cases where criminals pull people over in remote areas with fake uniforms and cop cars so...the fear of cops not being real is understandable.
2) Explain clearly why you are talking to the person. If it's a traffic stop, explain the rules. If it's a house visit, explain why you are there.
3) Describe everything that is about to happen next...before you do anything. Describe the suspect what is about to happen to him specifically.

If people understand the reasons why they are being questioned, what is on the stake and what is going to happen, then they are far more likely to comply without fighting back. Even if they are criminals on parole who got caught.

[bigbear8]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

I wouldn't say that "it was a very good reason"

If thieves went to rob someone and took the effort to do it at night, under the cover of darkness, they wouldn't knock and announce themselves. And police rarely goes to these domestic violecne situations with lights flashing and sirens blazing. Especially in a suburb. People were asleep. Cops aren't allowed to use lights/sirens in residential areas unless it's really necessary.

Have you ever lived in America for any extended period of time? Because this just sounds like blissful ignorance. Who are you to dictate what a criminal in America would or wouldn’t do? Cops absolutely can use their sirens or any tool they feel is necessary. One would think this video somewhat exemplifies that.

You pointed out what occurs in YOUR safe country. I would stick to that and not pretend like you have any idea how America operates.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by bigbear8 ↗

Have you ever lived in America for any extended period of time? Because this just sounds like blissful ignorance. Who are you to dictate what a criminal in America would or wouldn’t do? Cops absolutely can use their sirens or any tool they feel is necessary. One would think this video somewhat exemplifies that.

You pointed out what occurs in YOUR safe country. I would stick to that and not pretend like you have any idea how America operates.

"Who are you to dictate what a criminal in America would or wouldn’t do?"
Im not dictating what they will do. And who am I....i'm a person...just like criminals or cops. The underlying human psychology connects us all and is the same. If you violate the points i brought up in my previous post, then you will create problems for yourself.

"Cops absolutely can use their sirens or any tool they feel is necessary"
Yes, of course they can. That's why I said in my last post that the use of sirens must be justified and necessary. Cops rarely respond to domestic disputes with sirens blazing...especially when its night time.


"You pointed out what occurs in YOUR safe country."
And why is my country a safe country? Whose fault is it, that US is so unsafe compared to Europe?
Hint: Gun lobbyists who have flooded the country with guns, puting a threat of being shot into every corner of the country.
Hint: Right wing conservative groups that fight against social programs and equality, which creates desperation...which in the end leads to violence and crime.
Hint: US drug policy and ridiculous prison policies.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+oliver+prison

[bigbear8]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

And why is my country a safe country? Whose fault is it, that US is so unsafe compared to Europe?

My country is also extremely safe compared to America (and most other countries for that matter), but I have lived, worked, studied and unfortunately been in a few brawls in America. It’s a different world that you clearly have no idea of outside of what you read about in books or see on TV.

Therefore, I’m not going to respond any longer as you’re clearly on your soapbox rambling gibberish.