[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Basically for his age group and younger, Pretti was obstructing the lockdowns.
If you believe he should be killed for that (I don’t think he should on a personal level), then you understand why people don’t have a lot of sympathy for him to protest the deportation of illegal aliens

Not everyone protesting this is protesting the deportation of illegal immigrants, and framing it that way is misleading. The percentage of people who protest all deportation of illegal immigrants is small. Since the Renee Good shooting, much of the protest has focused on the use of force, rules of engagement, federal agents operating in civilian protest spaces, and accountability when citizens are harmed or killed. Those concerns are about conduct and oversight, not blanket opposition to immigration enforcement.

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Here is a thought experiment;
Watch the video but imagine it’s Charlie Kirk protesting Biden and Fauci their COVID lockdowns. Be honest, do you still want the federal officers in jail?

I understand the point you’re trying to make, but I don’t think that hypothetical maps cleanly onto what actually happened. Exploring it would mean shifting the focus away from the real event and into a scenario that doesn’t exist, which isn’t especially useful here.

I’d rather stay grounded in what did happen and the facts surrounding it.

That said, even if I briefly consider your example, my position doesn’t change. Charlie Kirk wouldn't deserve to be shot and killed by law enforcement for protesting anything. And if you frame that hypothetical exactly the way Pretti was killed, yes, I do think law enforcement overreacted dramatically and should be held accountable.

I disagreed with Charlie Kirk on a lot of things, particularly his nationalist religious framing, which largely put me off engaging with much else he had to say. But disagreement is not justification for violence. He did not deserve to die for his views.

No individual has the moral authority to decide who lives or dies based on personal ideology or politics. I do not condone anyone playing god with human lives outside of a legal judicial process, and even then, that line is not always comfortable or clear.

[Briarknit]

Originally Posted by LERK ↗

obey commands don’t get shot.
idiot.

The level of whiplash from "Don't tread on me" to "comply or die"

[M.F.D.B.]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Not everyone protesting this is protesting the deportation of illegal immigrants, and framing it that way is misleading. The percentage of people who protest all deportation of illegal immigrants is small. Since the Renee Good shooting, much of the protest has focused on the use of force, rules of engagement, federal agents operating in civilian protest spaces, and accountability when citizens are harmed or killed. Those concerns are about conduct and oversight, not blanket opposition to immigration enforcement.



I understand the point you’re trying to make, but I don’t think that hypothetical maps cleanly onto what actually happened. Exploring it would mean shifting the focus away from the real event and into a scenario that doesn’t exist, which isn’t especially useful here.

I’d rather stay grounded in what did happen and the facts surrounding it.

That said, even if I briefly consider your example, my position doesn’t change. Charlie Kirk wouldn't deserve to be shot and killed by law enforcement for protesting anything. And if you frame that hypothetical exactly the way Pretti was killed, yes, I do think law enforcement overreacted dramatically and should be held accountable.

I disagreed with Charlie Kirk on a lot of things, particularly his nationalist religious framing, which largely put me off engaging with much else he had to say. But disagreement is not justification for violence. He did not deserve to die for his views.

No individual has the moral authority to decide who lives or dies based on personal ideology or politics. I do not condone anyone playing god with human lives outside of a legal judicial process, and even then, that line is not always comfortable or clear.

To be fair I think many people would agree with what you stated and your stance. But being Devils advocate, the Left in general rejoiced and no less publicly CELEBRATED his murder and the fact it happened on TV with his children and wife bearing witness at close range. So much for freedom of speech right?

I believe that to be the main point that OP you are replying too was after. But that's just me reading through my eyes.

[M.F.D.B.]

Originally Posted by DegoLocc ↗

Kind of related, they just arrested Don Lemon:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/don-lem...r-sources-say/

Oh boy, the hypocrisy right?

Lemon v. Kirk is about to go full retard from both sides...

[seleukosnikator]

The “treading” on someone here is a trespassing. Trespassing happens when people illegally enter our country—either by crossing the border without passing through a legal port of entry or by intentionally overstaying their visas. It’s not complicated.
Yet those who enforce the reality of a sovereign border get called ‘nazis’ by the dumbest people out there—especially if someone gets the Ashli Babbitt treatment. Pretti was a Babbitt. FAFO doesn’t care who you are or who you voted for.

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by seleukosnikator ↗

The “treading” on someone here is a trespassing. Trespassing happens when people illegally enter our country—either by crossing the border without passing through a legal port of entry or by intentionally overstaying their visas. It’s not complicated.
Yet those who enforce the reality of a sovereign border get called ‘nazis’ by the dumbest people out there—especially if someone gets the Ashli Babbitt treatment. Pretti was a Babbitt. FAFO doesn’t care who you are or who you voted for.

Entering this country illegally is a misdemeanor.

77 million people who voted for a sweeping upscale in deportation operations did so by voting for a convicted felon with 34 counts on his jacket. A convicted felon who pardoned hundreds of convicted criminals that physically attacked police, tried to overturn an election, and destroyed a hell of a lot more government property than a tail light.

Any Trump voter who claims to want harsher immigration enforcement because of the Law is a prevaricating cunt. Americans who act out of interest for law and order do not elect unrepentant convicted felons to lead the foremost country in the Free World. They do not cheer the blanket pardoning of hundreds of other cop-beating violent felons that smashed doors and windows and defecated on desks in the US Capitol.

I have no doubt that you, and most Trump voters for that matter, are extremely interested in deporting illegal immigrants.

But no one over here on the rational side of the country believes for a second that it is out of any remote sense of respect for the law. You invoke the 'law' when it suits you and gleefully ignore it when it does not. You apply it selectively against those you dislike and immerse yourselves in a haze of cognitive dissonance to manufacture pseudo-realities in order to shield those you idolize from it.

So go peddle that horseshit somewhere else. We're all tired as fuck of hearing the mealy-mouthed prevarication.

[Briarknit]

NORTHAMPTON — Chaplains of all faiths at Veterans Affairs facilities Massachusetts were told this week not to mention VA nurses at all, let alone the name Alex Pretti, at worship or gatherings.

Clergy also were told not to offer counseling or support to Veterans Affairs nurses, all according to emails obtained by The Republican.

That would include chaplains at the Edward P. Boland Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center in the Leeds section of Northampton.

Veterans Affairs spokespeople Friday said the prohibition is not national policy.

“At this present time, we were advised by leadership to not move forward with any offerings to staff. When they give further guidance, we will update chaplains as we move forward. This is for all chaplain staff. Thank you,” read an email addressed to “all chaplains,” with a subject line of “Staff Support.”

Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old intensive care nurse at a VA in Minnesota was shot and killed by U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents in Minneapolis on Jan. 24.

The email, dated Jan. 29, is from Kerrie Godsoe, a program support assistant for the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs in Massachusetts.

Reached by phone Friday, Godsoe said that directive was only until the VA receives further guidance. But she declined to say if there were new instructions and said she couldn’t talk further.

U.S Department of Veterans Affairs spokespeople responded Friday in an email.

“Any internal correspondence or comments you have that may appear to support such false claims do not reflect VA policy,” wrote Pete Kasperowicz, press secretary for the VA.

When asked what that policy is, Kasperowicz wrote: “All VA employees, including chaplains, are welcome to memorialize Alex Pretti in their own way as long as they are respectful, and it does not interfere with their work duties.”

On Thursday, a retired VA chaplain spoke at a memorial vigil for Pretti, organized by the state nurses’ union and hosted outside the facility in Leeds.

Another chaplain recounted the VA’s message and its effects in the anonymous email obtained by The Republican; the clergyperson feared losing the ability to minister at all at the VA.

Clergy were ordered to cease and desist in offering Pretti-related support and counsel to VA nurses. The chaplain was told he can only offer Mass.

The anonymous chaplain relayed that a supervisor said Pretti’s death was political.

“An act against the current administration. That individual’s interpretation, I’m sure and not an official edict,” the email said.

The clergyperson said chaplains were served with copies of the Hatch Act, which outlaws partisan activity by government employees.

The chaplain wrote of a desire to tell the VA supervisor that the Vatican, and Pope Leo XIV, have a different directive.

“His boss, and my ultimate boss does, too,” the email reads.

Chaplains are Veterans Affairs employees.

Spokespeople for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Springfield did not return calls and emails.

The Washington Post reported this week that VA employees nationwide are frustrated they have not received any agencywide acknowledgment of Petti’s killing.

“Staff were also initially told not to leave messages of support for Pretti in some of the center’s public spaces,” employees said, according to The Post.

The Post also said this controversy comes at a low point for morale at the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, following staff and budget cuts. Those cuts also have been felt locally, with veterans complaining of disappearing doctors.

The chaplains are making their case with the help of Springfield political consultant Anthony L. Cignoli, president of A.L. Cignoli Co.

“Several friends of different faiths who do this special work for the VA’s patients and the nurses and staff contacted me for advice on how they could contact members of the U.S. House of Representatives to let them know they were not to minister or give intentions during services with any mention of Pretti,” Cignoli said. “They were told that this was coming from ‘on high,’ either the top of the VA or from Washington itself. I understood that to mean the administration.”

Do these guys not understand that Trump is God? These chaplains need to fall in line.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by M.F.D.B. ↗

To be fair I think many people would agree with what you stated and your stance. But being Devils advocate, the Left in general rejoiced and no less publicly CELEBRATED his murder and the fact it happened on TV with his children and wife bearing witness at close range. So much for freedom of speech right?

I believe that to be the main point that OP you are replying too was after. But that's just me reading through my eyes.

There are fundamental differences here alongside the similarities.

Charlie Kirk was shot by a civilian. Two civilians were shot by federal law enforcement. Anyone celebrating any of these deaths is repugnant and deeply disturbing.

All of these killings occurred in the public sphere and were seen by large audiences, either live or shortly afterward, with family members witnessing the aftermath in one form or another, including at least one instance where a loved one was physically present within feet.

Kirk’s killing occurred on live television and was witnessed by a wide real time audience, but his wife and children were not present and did not witness it as it happened. Claims to the contrary circulated widely, including from public figures and content creators, but were incorrect. Erika Kirk later stated that she was with her mother during a medical procedure and received the call afterward.
https://countryrebel.com/was-erika-k...res-the-truth/

Regardless, the medium does not change the outcome. In all three cases, people are dead, families are permanently altered, and the harm is irreversible.

In Kirk’s case, the act was carried out by a private individual acting on his own beliefs. In the other cases, lethal force was exercised by agents of the state. That distinction matters. When a private individual commits murder, it is a criminal act. When federal law enforcement kills a civilian, it raises serious questions of authority, restraint, rules of engagement, and accountability, and those questions do not negate the possibility of criminal liability.

I also think broad labels do more harm than good here. Pointing to horrific reactions from "the Left" ignores the fact that morally reprehensible behavior exists across the political spectrum. People on all sides have excused or celebrated violence, and reducing this to partisan blame does not clarify anything.

Condemning people who celebrate death and scrutinizing government action are not mutually exclusive. Both can be true at the same time.

[tyroneslothrop]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

but his wife and children were not present and did not witness it as it happened

My ultra-conservative friend will be shocked to hear this. He is positive that CK's wife orchestrated his murder on the behest of Mossad for whom she has been a long time sleeper agent... I believe he treats this as an article of faith.

[Diethylamide]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

Entering this country illegally is a misdemeanor.

77 million people who voted for a sweeping upscale in deportation operations did so by voting for a convicted felon with 34 counts on his jacket. A convicted felon who pardoned hundreds of convicted criminals that physically attacked police, tried to overturn an election, and destroyed a hell of a lot more government property than a tail light.

Any Trump voter who claims to want harsher immigration enforcement because of the Law is a prevaricating cunt. Americans who act out of interest for law and order do not elect unrepentant convicted felons to lead the foremost country in the Free World. They do not cheer the blanket pardoning of hundreds of other cop-beating violent felons that smashed doors and windows and defecated on desks in the US Capitol.

I have no doubt that you, and most Trump voters for that matter, are extremely interested in deporting illegal immigrants.

But no one over here on the rational side of the country believes for a second that it is out of any remote sense of respect for the law. You invoke the 'law' when it suits you and gleefully ignore it when it does not. You apply it selectively against those you dislike and immerse yourselves in a haze of cognitive dissonance to manufacture pseudo-realities in order to shield those you idolize from it.

So go peddle that horseshit somewhere else. We're all tired as fuck of hearing the mealy-mouthed prevarication.

This was so good!