[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by tyroneslothrop ↗

It depends on what the investigation ultimately shows he actually did. But if those who claim he never drew his gun and never threatened harm to the officers surrounding him turn out to be correct, then yes, in my view, that qualifies as civil disobedience. In all the videos I’ve viewed in this thread, I haven’t seen anything that would contradict this view. That said, there are likely additional videos I haven’t seen, and unlike the CBP Office of Professional Responsibility, I have not had access to any body-camera footage. It’s also worth noting that the CBP preliminary report released yesterday does not attribute any specific violent actions to him beyond resisting arrest, but it is true that actively resisting arrest, if he did it, does cross the line from civil disobedience, which is a reason I want to see the final report from the investigation.

Yeah, but the CBP OPR still answer to the DHS Secretary, right? The same Secretary who stated on National television that Pretti was a domestic terrorist who was executed in self defense after he ‘brandished’ a firearm that never left its holster and intended to ‘massacre’ CBP agents that morning?

Maybe I’m fuzzy on the DHS org chart, but I’m more than a little skeptical about any level of ‘internal’ investigation into this crime.

Got a feeling we’ll see the ‘final report’ in its balanced and unbiased form right about the time we get those Epstein Files.

[shazrand]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

Yeah, but the CBP OPR still answer to the DHS Secretary, right? The same Secretary who stated on National television that Pretti was a domestic terrorist who was executed in self defense after he ‘brandished’ a firearm that never left its holster and intended to ‘massacre’ CBP agents that morning?

Maybe I’m fuzzy on the DHS org chart, but I’m more than a little skeptical about any level of ‘internal’ investigation into this crime.

Got a feeling we’ll see the ‘final report’ in its balanced and unbiased form right about the time we get those Epstein Files.

"We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

[wolfie]

I thought Tom Homan was sent in to try and rectify some of the issues. He has worked on both sides of the isle and received the 2015 Presidential Rank Award from Obama in 2015. As we know Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other President. I don't recall Sanctuary Cities then but there could have been. There was kick back and shootings under Obama's administration by ICE too. I know the ACLU filed a law suit against the Obama administration for their deportation practices. At this time the Patriot Act was still being used and no doubt ICE took advantage of that.

I keep hearing about the Epstein files and have to wonder about that. Epstein is going into his 3rd administration with (hidden) files not shown by the administration. So are we saying BOTH administrations hid these files in the past? If so why? Two reasons come to my mind. They are both dirty and are afraid of implication. Or there is nothing to show. Which is it? If you say they are hiding or won't release then you are talking about both parties not one. Think about that. It could very well be.

[M.F.D.B.]

Originally Posted by AnonX93 ↗

Oh no! M.F.D.B. Lord and savior is going to take his guns!

Wut?

[Vincentsdream]

Looks like trump and his team are starting to turn on DHS now that their initial narrative has been rejected by facts.

[DegoLocc]

So I guess the supposed fake AI video of Pretti attacking ICE taillights and spitting on agents was real. According to CBS and also BBC is reporting it too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...ore-his-death/

Not saying he deserved to be killed over this, but it is telling and doesn't help the peaceful protestor or observer narratives.

Shit like this is why I always wait to get so upset or personally invested emotionally in these stories. Because who else knows what's yet to come up.

FWIW, at this point, still looks like a bad shoot on ICE. But it also shows how deceptive the media can be when whipping up the bleeding hearts for clicks.

[StrategicNuclearMoose]

Originally Posted by DegoLocc ↗

So I guess the supposed fake AI video of Pretti attacking ICE taillights and spitting on agents was real. According to CBS and also BBC is reporting it too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...ore-his-death/

Not saying he deserved to be killed over this, but it is telling and doesn't help the peaceful protestor or observer narratives.

Shit like this is why I always wait to get so upset or personally invested emotionally in these stories. Because who else knows what's yet to come up.

FWIW, at this point, still looks like a bad shoot on ICE. But it also shows how deceptive the media can be when whipping up the bleeding hearts for clicks.

The two incidents seem basically the same except here he's not placing himself between agents and a woman. Arguably he's far more aggressive in this instance and yet didn't get shot 10 times.

Which to my mind makes the justification for killing him in the second incident even weaker.

What's clear in both videos is his weapon was visible and he never made any attempt to use it.

If you support concealed/open carry and the 2A, or the power of an armed populace to resist state repression, I'd love to hear how this affects your decision to be armed in public or how you interact with law enforcement. Then as a follow up, where do you see this heading?

Is it time to just do as your told by big government and hang up the gun belt? Happy that it's not happening to you and indifferent about it happening to others?

Seems like a slippery fucking slope to me.

[DegoLocc]

Originally Posted by Myristylbenzylmorphine ↗

The two incidents seem basically the same except here he's not placing himself between agents and a woman. Arguably he's far more aggressive in this instance and yet didn't get shot 10 times.

Which to my mind makes the justification for killing him in the second incident even weaker.

What's clear in both videos is his weapon was visible and he never made any attempt to use it.

If you support concealed/open carry and the 2A, or the power of an armed populace to resist state repression, I'd love to hear how this affects your decision to be armed in public or how you interact with law enforcement. Then as a follow up, where do you see this heading?

Is it time to just do as your told by big government and hang up the gun belt? Happy that it's not happening to you and indifferent about it happening to others?

Seems like a slippery fucking slope to me.

As someone who has had a state issued CCW from the sheriff's office for almost 15 years, (as of 3 years ago concealed carry became legal without permit but I still updated mine for reprocity in other states), I was trained to always let law enforcement know I was carrying concealed in their presence, and I would never resist arrest while armed. But that's just me. But I think any firearms instructor or CCW class instructor would agree with me. Also, semantics, but still, if he had no ID on him as reported he wasn't carrying legally, at least in my state. Also the second he resisted arrest he was no longer carrying legally either. That's just the way the law works.

I'm not saying Pretti was killed in a good shoot either, in fact it still looks like the opposite. He appears unarmed to me at the time of the shooting, from what we've seen so far.

Regardless, he made multiple bad decisions which led up to ICE fucking up and killing him.

The point of the video is it shatters the false media narrative that he was a peaceful protester/observer, and he had a history of getting physical with ICE. The media whips up ppls emotions, for engagement, views, clicks. They even photoshopped the dudes face to make him look more handsome in multiple comparison pictures from NBC and ABC. Very disingenuous of them IMO.

Personally I despise the lies in the wake of the event just as much as I hate the way ICE killed him if he was unarmed. But honestly false narratives drive and radicalize ppl into getting themselves killed for things that are exaggerated or misrepresent initially, intentionally. Renee good for instance wasn't protesting ICE killings, she was protesting illegals being deported.

In closing though, you're correct. It DOES show that ICE is able to arrest the guy while he was armed in the first situation when he was being more stand offish and aggressive. I personally think a charge right there for resisting arrest could and maybe should have led to his CCW being suspended, the same way it would be for any other assault charge. FWIW spitting on someone IS assault, and he clearly was also destroying government property here.

I wonder if he even actually got arrested here or charged? Probably not. Maybe if he would have things would have played out differently 11 days later when it came to him making the decision to engage ICE again. I guess we'll sadly never know.

[Vincentsdream]

I've heard the media say he was disarmed. I've heard them say he was not reaching for his weapon. I've heard them say he was recording police. I don't believe I've ever heard a media report say he was a strictly peaceful protestor that never had a run in with ice before.

Can you share a source stating he was this angelic being?

[DegoLocc]

Originally Posted by Vincentsdream ↗

I've heard the media say he was disarmed. I've heard them say he was not reaching for his weapon. I've heard them say he was recording police. I don't believe I've ever heard a media report say he was a strictly peaceful protestor that never had a run in with ice before.

Can you share a source stating he was this angelic being?

Pretty much every non conservative account of the story I have read has painted him as a saint, an observer or insinuated that he was only helping up another protester. When there is videos from before where he's in the street blocking traffic, waving pedestrians through, blocking ICE, and another drive by video with him and an ICE Agent up in each other faces, that almost never showed up in the mainstream media stories, only on YouTube... It's pretty apparent to me at least what the narrative they were trying to shape says.

I'm not linking you anything because it's such an obvious bad faith, oblivious request. You can read the articles over the last week and form your own opinions, you clearly already have done so.

Can we also get a moderator to add the most recent video to the OP as it's relevant? Thanks in advance.