[Mr.NoCredit]

Originally Posted by Rikbikboo ↗

I want to say I agree but..... That looked a bit wanton to me. Why did they even grab him?

Why did they grab him? I can only answer from what I’ve seen here. As far as I understand he was in the vicinity of the altercation and was trying to prevent ICE officers from arresting the women. Too close, shouting, making threatening gestures? No idea, I wasn’t there.

All I’m saying is to not get in the way, get next to or touch any law enforcement officer while doing his job regardless of how a person feels at that moment in time. Stay out of their way and things like this won’t happen. It’s easy to do but some people think it’s up to them to get in the way and try to stop them from arresting people.

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by Mr.NoCredit ↗

Why did they grab him? I can only answer from what I’ve seen here. As far as I understand he was in the vicinity of the altercation and was trying to prevent ICE officers from arresting the women. Too close, shouting, making threatening gestures? No idea, I wasn’t there.

He is shown doing literally NONE of that in the videos. Likewise, the sworn affidavits from immediate eyewitnesses that have been filed in Federal court also attest that he was doing none of that shit. Stop making shit up out of whole cloth. You weren't there, no. But you have seen the videos and you have read the witness affidavit. You're just gonna GUESS that maybe he did all this potentially (but not really in most cases) illegal shit even as you are presented with clear evidence that he, in fact, did none of it?

Witnesses and video both indicate that he helped a woman to her feet after she was knocked down. After that he was immediately pepper sprayed and then bum-rushed by half a dozen masked thugs while he was off balance and stumbling blind from the fucking pepper spray in his eyes.

The only thing that DHS has formally stated was that he was 'approaching agents aggressively with a gun and they fired defensively.'

That is clearly a bold-faced lie and not a single piece of footage or witness corroborates that bullshit.

Every possible angle of the video, as well as the witness statements, say he never drew a gun or was even seen reaching for one.

But even the expert witness conservative pundit who analyzed it based his entire justification for the firing squad on the predication that none of them even saw a gun until Paul Blart pulled it out of the victim's holster as he was pinned down and yelled 'Gun!"

[foxfantastic]

Originally Posted by Mr.NoCredit ↗

Why did they grab him? I can only answer from what I’ve seen here. As far as I understand he was in the vicinity of the altercation and was trying to prevent ICE officers from arresting the women. Too close, shouting, making threatening gestures? No idea, I wasn’t there.

All I’m saying is to not get in the way, get next to or touch any law enforcement officer while doing his job regardless of how a person feels at that moment in time. Stay out of their way and things like this won’t happen. It’s easy to do but some people think it’s up to them to get in the way and try to stop them from arresting people.

Boolshit

I have to reiterate time and time again here that proper law enforcement is trained to anticipate that people tend to freak out when they are being arrested, when they see their loved ones being arrested. If a person was shot dead everytime they resisted arrest, we'd have a pandemic on our hands, and it seems like thats exactly where we are headed with this Gestapo

And NO, I'm NOT saying that they should just be sitting ducks either, but that's the job they signed up for and they are trained to assess the risk.

There was NO risk here. There was PANIC and MURDER.

[Muertaluna]

Originally Posted by spyderguard ↗

Is this part actually true? Not a rhetorical question. I watched the slow-mo a few times but couldn’t see the disarming part.

I had previously assumed that the agent saw the concealed weapon and shot him immediately - either from freaking out or just using that as an excuse to kill (or both).

But if it is indeed true that he was disarmed first, that would take the inappropriateness to a whole new level.

If someone can describe to me which video shows the disarming, I’d greatly appreciate it.

The agent in gray seen fast walking away before the shots has thr firearm

[robot]

Originally Posted by watermb1 ↗

I feel like what happened here is the guy who took the guy off his waist took off pretty quick.

So ICE agents didn’t see the gun no more and thought it must of been in the “suspects” hands

These guys need better training. Never should have happened

If you watch all the videos again (just saying and everyone seems to forget why apparently this guy got involved) the woman they pepper sprayed is seen having her hands put behind her back, as if they are (and probably were) arresting her. That said, as tragic as it is, as wonderful a person as he may have actually been, for all his good work to veterans, etc. he will likely be viewed as interfering with an arrest, while legally carrying a weapon concealed during a very loud and obstructive protest of a law enforcement action. Don't play the game. The people at fault are all the fools currently in Congress (not just Trump) who had 2 years in 2020 (majority in House and Senate) to do DACA and DAPA as LAW and address all other immigration issues. But the problem was Bernie, that wretched parasite, wanted health care first vs. taking care of all the fiscal and administrative needs of federal and state governments - "governance first". We are not like Europe. Europe KNOWS who is in the country through national enforcement. Sanctuary cities are nice in theory but the 14th amendment is citizenship, due process for all and equal protection - all THREE things. If you have a veteran sleeping in the park and you up the status of an undocumented person THAT is an equal protection issue. All of them do not care who dies in the streets. If you join their game, you are their puppet for their performative garbage that let's their sorry asses stay in Congress. When we start treating any life lost - like the over 80 spanning Trump's first and current term - and over 50 under Obama who died in ICE detention then we'll be protesting in the right direction. Do not take their party line sides. Take humanities side. PS not directing this specifically to you but I had already started my initial thought on the videos ... so bonus.. I guess.

[foxfantastic]

Originally Posted by robot ↗

If you watch all the videos again (just saying and everyone seems to forget why apparently this guy got involved) the woman they pepper sprayed is seen having her hands put behind her back, as if they are (and probably were) arresting her. That said, as tragic as it is, as wonderful a person as he may have actually been, for all his good work to veterans, etc. he will likely be viewed as interfering with an arrest, while legally carrying a weapon concealed during a very loud and obstructive protest of a law enforcement action. Don't play the game. The people at fault are all the fools currently in Congress (not just Trump) who had 2 years in 2020 (majority in House and Senate) to do DACA and DAPA as LAW and address all other immigration issues. But the problem was Bernie, that wretched parasite, wanted health care first vs. taking care of all the fiscal and administrative needs of federal and state governments - "governance first". We are not like Europe. Europe KNOWS who is in the country through national enforcement. Sanctuary cities are nice in theory but the 14th amendment is citizenship, due process for all and equal protection - all THREE things. If you have a veteran sleeping in the park and you up the status of an undocumented person THAT is an equal protection issue. All of them do not care who dies in the streets. If you join their game, you are their puppet for their performative garbage that let's their sorry asses stay in Congress. When we start treating any life lost - like the over 80 spanning Trump's first and current term - and over 50 under Obama who died in ICE detention then we'll be protesting in the right direction. Do not take their party line sides. Take humanities side. PS not directing this specifically to you but I had already started my initial thought on the videos ... so bonus.. I guess.

Fault is with the agents, who were either not properly trained or panicked, or both.

Pulling Bernie Sanders out of a hat doesn't change or even affect the present situation.

[Faust]

What I believe happened;

- people were blowing whistles trying to maximise the police stress levels
- a guy was interfering with an arrest
- he resisted his arrest
- they disarmed him as he was carrying a loaded gun
- the loaded gun went off which that type is known for, according to the Biden run FBI:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-repor...232320356.html
- after the cops hear the gun go off, they take out the suspect

Personal take away messages;
- the cop firing did not know who fired so he just took out the main resisting suspect as he had the highest threat level.
- using whistles and screaming to agitate the cops does not increase your or your buddies chances of survival
- it is never wise to resist arrest

[robot]

Originally Posted by Dream_Trawler ↗

What trips me out is the federal governments reaction is to back up their guys 100% no matter what actually happened. Their statements were immediately "the guy that got shot deserved it, and our guys are heroes".

They wont even entertain the idea that mistakes can occur.

As cliché as it is brining up the 1984 quote, i think it is the most apt description of what they are trying/are actually doing.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"

We have an adversarial system. The government is going to have its side and zealous defend it. Judges - Federal judges, at least - are life tenured for a reason (i.e., preserve judicial independence/minimize political influence once on the bench).... These are good threads, if we all take the time to look at this on other levels.

[foxfantastic]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

What I believe happened;

- people were blowing whistles trying to maximise the police stress levels
- a guy was interfering with an arrest
- he resisted his arrest
- they disarmed him as he was carrying a loaded gun
- the loaded gun went off which that type is known for, according to the Biden run FBI:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-repor...232320356.html
- after the cops hear the gun go off, they take out the suspect

Personal take away messages;
- the cop firing did not know who fired so he just took out the main resisting suspect as he had the highest threat level.
- using whistles and screaming to agitate the cops does not increase your or your buddies chances of survival
- it is never wise to resist arrest

So it was an unlawful killing, which the agency needs to own up to, and fork out cash to this man's family for THEIR error.

When all they had to do was exercise professional restraint.

[StrategicNuclearMoose]

Silly people, just comply in advance. Surely the government that is illegally arresting, assaulting, disappearing, disregarding the rights of, and killing its citizens will stop!