[foxfantastic]

Originally Posted by Necrotic Bowel ↗

She wouldn’t comply with a lawful order from police. How do the police know she isn’t armed or have a bomb? Why won’t she follow commands, what’s she hiding? She tries to leave the scene against a direct command. How are the officers supposed to know what her intentions are after getting away?

The loss of all common sense is the hallmark of liberalism

Thank you for your two cents, Dr Giggles

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by Necrotic Bowel ↗

She wouldn’t comply with a lawful order from police. How do the police know she isn’t armed or have a bomb? She tries to leave the scene against a direct command. How are the officers supposed to know what her intentions are after getting away?

The loss of all common sense is the hallmark of liberalism

You are straight up fucking wrong.

It was not a lawful order. ICE has absolutely zero authority to issue 'orders' to US citizens unless they are actively committing a Federal offense at a felony level. Zero.

Understand that word? Zero.

It is not part of their mandate. If they encounter resistance from US citizens that interferes with their job of arresting immigrants, peacefully protesting or blocking the road or whatever, they are expected to contact local authorities to handle disbursement.

ICE exceeded their mandate, unlawfully issued 'orders' to a US citizen, attempted to illegally detain a US citizen without cause, illegally attempted to force entry into a US citizen's private vehicle without cause, and then illegally executed that US citizen when she attempted to flee an unlawful traffic stop and detainment.

JFC, just because you have some twisted authoritarian power fantasy doesn't actually mean your masked, badgeless heroes have any semblance of the power you believe them to. Go read their mandate on the fucking government's official ICE page.

You're a big 2A ammosexual who frequently mistakes his own limp dick for a sidearm and delusions of 'freedom'. I wonder what YOU would have done if a bunch of armed, masked thugs with no ID, no badges, and ZERO LEGAL AUTHORITY OVER YOU surrounded your fucking car and ordered you to get out and get on the ground. You KNEW they weren't cops. You KNEW they did not have the legal authority to detain you. But there you are, in the driver's seat while they start flanking your vehicle. You telling me you're gonna comply with masked carjackers? Just crawl out of the car with your hands up, crying like a little bitch and getting on your knees?

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Gosh I wonder what Vedderman's non-emotional opinion is on all this

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Gosh I wonder what Vedderman's non-emotional opinion is on all this

If you don't feel any emotion watching a US citizen getting executed in cold blood by federal agents while attempting to flee an UNLAWFUL detainment, I guess you just aren't very patriotic now, are you?

Or, I dunno, human?

[foxfantastic]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

If you don't feel any emotion watching a US citizen getting executed in cold blood by federal agents while attempting to flee an UNLAWFUL detainment, I guess you just aren't very patriotic now, are you?

Or, I dunno, human?

It's a bit alarming how blase people are about what the future have in store for them.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

If you don't feel any emotion watching a US citizen getting executed in cold blood by federal agents while attempting to flee an UNLAWFUL detainment, I guess you just aren't very patriotic now, are you?

Or, I dunno, human?

I'm just fucking with you because you're kind of losing it in here. And the whole "agree with me or you're a bad person and not human" strewn with selective CAPS LOCK is pretty weird and bully-ish

Regardless of the legality of the stop, I find this situation to be awful and I don't think she "should" have been shot. But then again she shouldn't have hit the gas with any person in front of the vehicle. It's a shitty situation and mistakes were made on both sides, and I'm former law enforcement who has hand his weapon drawn at people countless times in my 5 years of experience.

[DegoLocc]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

They are NOT 'police' in the sense that they ONLY have power and authority over illegal aliens. NOT US citizens, unless it is a stop at one of our national borders.

It is disingenuous to refer to them as 'police' when their entire mandate only gives them the authority to detain or arrest or give 'orders' to illegal aliens.

They had ZERO legal authority to 'order' her to leave her car. They had ZERO legal authority to try to force their way into her car. They had ZERO legal authority to murder her as she attempted to flee an unlawful detainment perpetrated by masked criminals with no id, no badges, and NO AUTHORITY.

Using the term 'police' to describe their poorly-trained, over-enforced but extremely LIMITED scope of power is misleading.

It encourages citizens to view them as having similar authority to, you know...real police.

Unless you're an illegal immigrant, their real power is closer to that of a fucking meter maid writing parking citations.

Oh wait, they actually can't even do that unless you've got a trunk full of fruit pickers from Guatemala.

I'm not trying to be a snarky smart ass or anything. I genuinely want to know what you think here.

There are rumors at this point, not yet verified, but if it comes to light that she was there to from out of state with the intention to obstruct/block/agitate/get in the way/impead ICE from doing their job....

If any of that is true then are you really saying that a federal agent has zero rights, legal power or recourse to try and detain or stop her? The federal agents are supposed to do what in this situation? Give up and go home? Call local police that have orders to not work with or help them? Continue to have to work around this SUVs mobile barricade?

What should they have done in regards to her following them around all morning blocking them/getting in the way?

I'm not saying she should be shot, but they likely had legal grounds to stop and detain her if the above turns out to be true.

There is a video now out there of her wife saying. "They shot her in the head, this is all my fault, I made her come down here".

That sounds to me like they were there to disrupt ICE and get in their way. If that's the case then ICE, (a federal government agency) had a legal right to stop her and detain her for obstruction on a federal level.

Just like the FBI can detain you even though they aren't local police if your obstructing them or trying to keep them from doing their work.

There is protesting, then there is activism, and then there is breaking the law and suffering the consequences like being stopped or detained. If at that point you try and flee, anything can happen.

It really is looking like she put herself in this situation. That doesn't mean she deserved to die, but she literally was possibly "playing in traffic".

I think she could've been more effective protesting and staying out of the way. Staying alive to raise her child. Not putting herself in dumb situations like this, selfishly.

However, If it turns out that she was a resident of that street or area and wasn't there to disrupt then yes, ICE will look very bad in the public's eye. And I don't believe they had the right to stop her or open her car door if that ends up being the case. But so far this issue is split right down the political isle.

Regardless I don't think she should have been shot, and I also don't think she should have been there doing what she was doing if it was activism.

More facts will come to light, we shouldn’t be acting like any of us really know one way or the other what led up to the shooting at this point.

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

I'm just fucking with you because you're kind of losing it in here. And the whole "agree with me or you're a bad person and not human" strewn with selective CAPS LOCK is pretty weird and bully-ish

Regardless of the legality of the stop, I find this situation to be awful and I don't think she "should" have been shot. But then again she shouldn't have hit the gas with any person in front of the vehicle. It's a shitty situation and mistakes were made on both sides, and I'm former law enforcement who has hand his weapon drawn at people countless times in my 5 years of experience.

Man, if the world we live in doesn't allow for 'agree with me or you're a bad person' when the disagreement is based on people cheering over a murder victim's unjust killing under color of authority, then I guess I am just choosing to live in a different one.

Rejoicing and taking pleasure in an event like this isn't an 'opinion.' It's an aberration.

I will remain unequivocal in my stance that if someone chooses to publicly applaud and cheer the execution of a peaceful protestor fleeing an unlawful stop, then yes, they are a bad fucking person. Not for 'disagreeing' with me. But for their complete and utter lack of a moral compass.

Also, just FYI, because I have been communicating like this since since BBS days in the late 80s, my typing style predates easy font changes. So 40+ years of muscle memory has me using two taps of the Caps Lock key when I express emphasis, rather than taking the time to change font to italics for one word. It's emphatic stress not 'yelling' or whatever people associate with single words in caps in 2026.

[Vedderman]

Originally Posted by DegoLocc ↗

Just like the FBI can detain you even though they aren't local police if your obstructing them or trying to keep them from doing their work.

There is protesting, then there is activism, and then there is breaking the law and suffering the consequences like being stopped or detained. If at that point you try and flee, anything can happen.

No. You are simply wrong. 100% flat-out unequivocally wrong.

Yes, the FBI can detain you even though they are not local. It is part of their mandate.

ICE cannot. Period. Literally above their paygrade to try to police US citizens aside from at the border unless those people are in the act of committing a federal felony. They have ZERO legal right to detain US citizens and even less legal right to shoot them when they attempt the flee illegal detainment.

Arresting immigrants at work or at home is not emergent, critical work. No one is harmed if the work is impeded for a few hours, because entering the US undocumented is a misdemeanor.

Nothing ICE is doing is ever so important that it MUST be done that minute. They aren't saving fucking lives or stopping bank robberies or putting out fires.

So indeed. They are required to call local authorities or Federal authorities whose mandate includes making arrests if they have US citizens non-violently impeding their work. Then they sit and wait. Same as the DOGE fuckers who had to sit and wait for a US Marshall to get them in the door when office security wouldn't let them into buildings to steal computers.


Dude, maybe you're just playing devils' advocate for fun, I dunno. But for a so-called 'moderate' you simp for the Fash harder than Mayor Rappaport.

[DegoLocc]

Originally Posted by Vedderman ↗

No. You are simply wrong. 100% flat-out unequivocally wrong.

Yes, the FBI can detain you even though they are not local. It is part of their mandate.

ICE cannot. Period. Ever. Fullstop. Literally above their paygrade to try to police US citizens aside from at the border. They have ZERO legal right to detain US citizens and even less legal right to shoot them when they attempt the flee illegal detainment.

Arresting immigants at work or at home is not emergent, critical work. No one is harmed if the work is impeded for a few hours, because entering the US undocumented is a misdemeanor.

Nothing ICE is doing is ever so important that it MUST be done that minute. They aren't saving fucking lives or stopping bank robberies or putting out fires.

So indeed. They are required to call local authorities or Federal authorities whose mandate includes making arrests if they have US citizens non-violently impeding their work. Then they sit and wait. Same as the DOGE fuckers who had to sit and wait for a US Marshall to get them in the door when office security wouldn't let them into buildings to steal computers.


Dude, maybe you're just playing devils' advocate for fun, I dunno. But for a so-called 'moderate' you simp for the Fash harder than Mayor Rappaport.

Fair enough.

I think out of the two of us I'm actually being a measured moderate, ultimately waiting for the facts to come out, asking real questions like how should ICE deal with activists getting in their way obstructing them, do they have any actual legal authority or recourse?

You're the one acting with partisan bias and ruining on pure emotion, clearly.

That doesn't make you wrong or a bad person, but for you to keep questioning my "moderate label" is asinine, when you're the one being unhinged about this, not me.

I'm admitting that I don't know exactly what happened or the exact legality here. You're the one professing to have all the answers as if you're privy to some information that the rest of us aren't.

No one knows what really happened leading up to this and yes it does matter if she was there in an activists/agitator capacity.