[Thundy]

Originally Posted by jkesil ↗

I always admire when people are able to deem the rape victim, rather than the rapist, guilty of rape.

The number one guilty of invading Ukraine is ruSSkies. They did it because they thought their zoo is imperial. It’s not. It’s a new era in which there is nazis to team up with just like they did in 1939 invading Poland and starting WW2. They are alone. And they made a huge mistake. And now they will pay for it. It will take years, maybe decades. Fine. We’re ready and willing to play. With ruSSkies.

Maybe this will change your mind. It was an avoidable war.
https://fair.org/home/calling-russia...-off-the-hook/

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

One thing that's important to remember is that Western leaders coaxed Ukraine into thinking that Russia wouldn't do anything, despite reiterated concerns by Russia that if they pushed forward with NATO that they would invade. It was not a random act of an imperialist warlord, it was repeated since 2008 that this would happen. A US military base right on the edge of Russia was not acceptable, rationally so.

We wouldn't let Cuba hold nuclear missiles, we have the Monroe doctrine. Russia has the Kozyrev Doctrine. This was a war that was avoidable but was egged on by the West and political powers. The people who pay are the citizens. Ukraine is one of the most notoriously corrupt countries on earth (only marginally less corrupt than Russia) and ruled by oligarchs with a system of corruption so thoroughly embedded that people call it culture.

You'd have to be delusional to fight for either side. Which is precisely why there's countless videos of Ukrainians and Russians not wanting to fight the elites game, they're tracked down and forced to go die in a war they didn't want. Their ideals though, eh?

You are wrong on all accounts, and everything you have said is something I've heard almost verbatim from the Russian propagandists.

First,

One thing that's important to remember is that Western leaders coaxed Ukraine into thinking that Russia wouldn't do anything,

The West constantly warned Ukraine that Russian attack is imminent. They provided instructors and training to prepare them long before that as well.
Russian attack on Ukraine has almost nothing to do with NATO. Its an imperialistic war of ideology. Putin wants to be a great Tsar and unite Belarus, Ukraine and some other ex-Soviet countries into Russia and go into history as the greatest Tsar of all time. It's obvious from his speeches. The current propaganda suggests the same thing. Russian state propaganda pushes the narrative that all of eastern Europe( not just Eastern Ukraine ) belongs to Russia.
They even have their own alternative history( like in North Korea ).

A US military base right on the edge of Russia was not acceptable

But, it is acceptable, and has been for a while. 3 Countries joined nato that have a border with Russia. Then Finland joined too. No problem. NATO posed no threat to Russia and Putin knew that.
All the countries in Europe(except for the Baltics) failed to meet their required military budgets. Before the Russian invasion, European militaries were withering away. Most NATO military exercises were symbolic and involved like 2000-5000 soldiers. Some 10 000, where as Russians practiced capturing the Baltics and other offensive maneuvers involving up to 100 000 soldiers.
There was no indication at all, that anything might threaten Russia. Thats a fact.

We wouldn't let Cuba hold nuclear missiles, we have the Monroe doctrine.

This is a standard pro-Russian argument and it's wrong as well.
Not allowing nukes into cuba was an obvious thing. It was the cold war and nukes required bombers to be delivered + there were no good anti-nuke defenses. Nowdays, the distance of the nukes from its target is almost irrelevant. Modern nukes can/are launched from submarines that can sneak close to the Russian land and can't be intercepted.
The argument of nukes no longer makes sense. The argument of military threat makes no sense either. It would take millions of soldiers to have a chance of capturing Russia. Further millions to hold it. Attacking Russia was( and still is ) unthinkable.

Ukraine is one of the most notoriously corrupt countries on earth

Sure, and noone is denying that. Not even Ukrainians. That is one of the reasons why the Maidan revolution took place. Ukrainians want to join the EU to get rid of the corruption and get the oligarchs under control( legacy of the Russian rule )

[luc21]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

One thing that's important to remember is that Western leaders coaxed Ukraine into thinking that Russia wouldn't do anything, despite reiterated concerns by Russia that if they pushed forward with NATO that they would invade. It was not a random act of an imperialist warlord, it was repeated since 2008 that this would happen. A US military base right on the edge of Russia was not acceptable, rationally so.

We wouldn't let Cuba hold nuclear missiles, we have the Monroe doctrine. Russia has the Kozyrev Doctrine. This was a war that was avoidable but was egged on by the West and political powers. The people who pay are the citizens. Ukraine is one of the most notoriously corrupt countries on earth (only marginally less corrupt than Russia) and ruled by oligarchs with a system of corruption so thoroughly embedded that people call it culture.

You'd have to be delusional to fight for either side. Which is precisely why there's countless videos of Ukrainians and Russians not wanting to fight the elites game, they're tracked down and forced to go die in a war they didn't want. Their ideals though, eh?

Are only 3. options.

1. You are you're a liar
2.You are a useful idiot
3.You are both

You stupidly repeat the mantra about corruption as a reason to attack the sovereignty of another country and you didn't even bother to find out how it is in reality. Find out what efforts Ukraine has made in the fight against corruption, what measures it has taken in the field of providing public contracts etc. ect.

one example for you
https://prozorro.gov.ua/en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozorro

[Thundy]

>Russian attack on Ukraine has almost nothing to do with NATO.
And the trove of US military documents that explicitly state that NATO expansion would cause a conflict in Ukraine is... Russian disinformation, is that the line now, CNN? I'm wasting my time, nuance is lost on you folks.

>You stupidly repeat the mantra about corruption as a reason to attack the sovereignty of another country
No, I didn't say this, it's unfortunate that your reading comprehension is this low. If you re-read my post again you might understand.

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

You can say the same thing about the Ukrainians. If they all told Zelenskyy to fuck off, the war would be over. What's the difference for the average poor person in Ukraine if Russia wins? Another set of corrupt oligarchs will come and rule them. That's all it is, a geopolitical game where a bunch of poor people on both sides are dying for a couple of rich cunts. This war could've been avoided but now it'll be prolonged as much as possible to weaken Russia. That'll be a lot of Ukrainian and Russian kids without their father...

Both sides have already lost and will only continue to lose.

It was an invasion by a greedy cunt, as you put it, followed up by acts of genocide by these cowardly tyrants.

The Ukrainian PPL are fighting to protect themselves from being erased from history so I don't think that they will sit on their ass while this happens.

Would you !

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

The difference is that if you say no to fighting against dictators, then you will serve under one. If you say no to your own dictator....you will get rid of him. The first step to getting rid of dictators and corruption is to say no to those things. If Russians had said no to Putin, then they would have deposed him and been free in their own country. Even if Russia wins the war, Russians will still lose.

If you don't fight for your country or ideals, then the first one to come and "claim" you as their bitch will simply get to keep you for free, without paying anything for capturing you.

Well said !

[luc21]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

>Russian attack on Ukraine has almost nothing to do with NATO.
And the trove of US military documents that explicitly state that NATO expansion would cause a conflict in Ukraine is... Russian disinformation, is that the line now, CNN? I'm wasting my time, nuance is lost on you folks.

>You stupidly repeat the mantra about corruption as a reason to attack the sovereignty of another country
No, I didn't say this, it's unfortunate that your reading comprehension is this low. If you re-read my post again you might understand.

You are right. Don`t waste your time.
It`s probably more worth than other people.

I really don't understand this and I doubt that you yourself are able to judge what you write.

[xennex]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

Maybe this will change your mind. It was an avoidable war.
https://fair.org/home/calling-russia...-off-the-hook/

Thundy, I thank you for the post and link, but agree with scorpion9.

I'll add some thoughts as I see them:
NATO is a collective defensive organization and I don't see any countries clamoring to join Russia right now.
A lot has changed since the 1990's. Yes NATO expansion one of them. But Putin is a shifty bastard that has been openly meddling in Ukraine and killing dissenters for years. The whole "corruption" angle is getting old. A new government (after Maidan) needs time to deal with corruption, but Putin didn't dare give them time as that was one of his "markets".

[Roosta]

[QUOTE=Thundy;7915250]One thing that's important to remember is that Western leaders coaxed Ukraine into thinking that Russia wouldn't do anything.

This was a war that was avoidable but was egged on by the West and political powers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your obviously pro ruskie.

Western leaders coaxed Ukraine. Your delusional !

Avoidable & Egged on by the West.

You use your your fingers pretty quick without using your brain ha !

Here's a finger for you to gesticulate over.

Now wake up & put up a post with an once of fact !

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by Thundy ↗

>Russian attack on Ukraine has almost nothing to do with NATO.
And the trove of US military documents that explicitly state that NATO expansion would cause a conflict in Ukraine is... Russian disinformation, is that the line now, CNN? I'm wasting my time, nuance is lost on you folks.

>You stupidly repeat the mantra about corruption as a reason to attack the sovereignty of another country
No, I didn't say this, it's unfortunate that your reading comprehension is this low. If you re-read my post again you might understand.

You're a very staunch pro ruskie then. I suppose that works for you in your world but in reality, It's quite obvious that you're a sheep.