[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by LionsDen ↗

Let's not rush to judge what may or may not happen. I believe Trump will bring peace between Russia and Ukraine.

"I'm not a US citizen" well, me neither, but the way you jump in with your boy Zelensky everytime it's about Ukraine tells me you are Ukrainian.

At the end of the day, America voted, and the majority chose Trump. Like him or not, he delivered better results than Biden. They chose him for a reason. Let's hope something good comes out of this.

but the way you jump in with your boy Zelensky everytime it's about Ukraine tells me you are Ukrainian.

Again, your intuition is wrong. You are a bad judge of character. Im not Ukrainian and ive never been to Ukraine either.

Im pro Zelensky for obvious reasons, he is the Churchill of our time. He refused to run away when being faced with the second largest army in the world sieging his capital. How many western politicians would do the same now days? Im sure that every politician in my country would flee or resign on first sign of threat. It takes balls to go against the russian war machine. He is also doing top-notch foreign policy, getting the aid Ukraine needs.
As far as politicians go, you cant really ask for a better one in such a dire situation.

Also, in my replies in this thread, i didnt mention zelenski once, so i dont know how you connected him to trump.

Like him or not, he delivered better results than Biden

Did he though? Like....for real? Give a list of things that he did better than Biden.
He was elected to represent the interests of the majority and he did the opposite. He fought against healthcare, environment, against all kinds of no-brainer social programs that would benefit 90% of the people, and he lowered all kinds of taxes for the ultra rich who already don't pay enough. He was supposed to fight for the interests of the majority who elected him, but he made every decision based on how much it benefited the richest of the rich( including himself ). Under trump, rich will get richer more quickly and poor will remain poorer and have even less chance to get out of poverty traps.

Electing Trump makes no sense at all, its just mind boggling why americans fell for the mass-propaganda so fully. You are supposed to elect someone who represents you and relates to you. How does trump relate to 99% of the americans? He doesn't...in any way. He was worn into obscene wealth that most americans can't relate to. He has never had to work a day in his life. He doesn't know what it means like to have to pay rent, child care, healthcare, groceries and fuel. He has never had to think about these things. Rent is just free money that he gets, so of course he is all in favor of high rents. Same goes for real estate costs. He as a wealthy real estate tycoon is interested in ever-increasing housing cost.
If you listen to his speeches, you can clearly see that he has a dangerous narcissistic personality due to his upbringing in wealth. He has the best brain, the best words, the best everything. No one in the history of mankind has done anything as well as he did. That's what he believes. A man who believes he is flawless and best at everything will not take advice from people who know better.
He has always looked down on everyone else because he was raised as someone from not just the upper class, but an ivory-tower-class, and from ivory tower, you can only look down on the peasants.

Let's hope something good comes out of this

Well, i'm not gonna hope anything good, all i really hope now is that whatever bad comes out of it, is reversible. The biggest problem is gonna be the next election, which probably wont be free and fare anymore.
My guess is that Trump is gonna start working towards removing term limits soon, so he could stay in power forever. But...i agree, lets not speculate any further. Time will tell.

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Again, your intuition is wrong. You are a bad judge of character. Im not Ukrainian and ive never been to Ukraine either.

Im pro Zelensky for obvious reasons, he is the Churchill of our time. He refused to run away when being faced with the second largest army in the world sieging his capital. How many western politicians would do the same now days? Im sure that every politician in my country would flee or resign on first sign of threat. It takes balls to go against the russian war machine. He is also doing top-notch foreign policy, getting the aid Ukraine needs.
As far as politicians go, you cant really ask for a better one in such a dire situation.

Also, in my replies in this thread, i didnt mention zelenski once, so i dont know how you connected him to trump.



Did he though? Like....for real? Give a list of things that he did better than Biden.
He was elected to represent the interests of the majority and he did the opposite. He fought against healthcare, environment, against all kinds of no-brainer social programs that would benefit 90% of the people, and he lowered all kinds of taxes for the ultra rich who already don't pay enough. He was supposed to fight for the interests of the majority who elected him, but he made every decision based on how much it benefited the richest of the rich( including himself ). Under trump, rich will get richer more quickly and poor will remain poorer and have even less chance to get out of poverty traps.

Electing Trump makes no sense at all, its just mind boggling why americans fell for the mass-propaganda so fully. You are supposed to elect someone who represents you and relates to you. How does trump relate to 99% of the americans? He doesn't...in any way. He was worn into obscene wealth that most americans can't relate to. He has never had to work a day in his life. He doesn't know what it means like to have to pay rent, child care, healthcare, groceries and fuel. He has never had to think about these things. Rent is just free money that he gets, so of course he is all in favor of high rents. Same goes for real estate costs. He as a wealthy real estate tycoon is interested in ever-increasing housing cost.
If you listen to his speeches, you can clearly see that he has a dangerous narcissistic personality due to his upbringing in wealth. He has the best brain, the best words, the best everything. No one in the history of mankind has done anything as well as he did. That's what he believes. A man who believes he is flawless and best at everything will not take advice from people who know better.
He has always looked down on everyone else because he was raised as someone from not just the upper class, but an ivory-tower-class, and from ivory tower, you can only look down on the peasants.





Well, i'm not gonna hope anything good, all i really hope now is that whatever bad comes out of it, is reversible. The biggest problem is gonna be the next election, which probably wont be free and fare anymore.
My guess is that Trump is gonna start working towards removing term limits soon, so he could stay in power forever. But...i agree, lets not speculate any further. Time will tell.

I have realized that arguing with lefties are pointless. it’s like trying to teach a kid that jumping off a building is dangerous, only to have them insist it’s a great idea.

I don’t need to prove that Trump achieved more than Biden, you can find that information everywhere, and Google is your best friend.

You say you never mentioned Zelensky, you don’t have to. It’s obvious you support Ukraine, and there’s nothing wrong with that, you can support trees for all I care, just don’t make it impossible to have a reasonable debate. Right now, your coming across like a child defying their parent, everything you see are red and negative.

Every time someone brings up a point, you respond with "give me a list." That’s just lazy, do your own research. Im not here to be your Google, and I’m not going to waste my energy looking things up for you. If you are interested in knowing, then you do the job and Google it up.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by LionsDen ↗

I have realized that arguing with lefties are pointless. it’s like trying to teach a kid that jumping off a building is dangerous, only to have them insist it’s a great idea.

I don’t need to prove that Trump achieved more than Biden, you can find that information everywhere, and Google is your best friend.

You say you never mentioned Zelensky, you don’t have to. It’s obvious you support Ukraine, and there’s nothing wrong with that, you can support trees for all I care, just don’t make it impossible to have a reasonable debate. Right now, your coming across like a child defying their parent, everything you see are red and negative.

Every time someone brings up a point, you respond with "give me a list." That’s just lazy, do your own research. Im not here to be your Google, and I’m not going to waste my energy looking things up for you. If you are interested in knowing, then you do the job and Google it up.

You are one bizarre kid.

I have realized that arguing with lefties are pointless

Im not a leftist, so i have no idea what you are talking about. I guess you refer to me as a leftist, which means its 3 times in a row now when you have misjudged me. Don't try to judge people. You have proven again and again that you are a bad judge of character. Ask other people around you to help you out. Don't rely on your own intuition.

I don’t need to prove that Trump achieved more than Biden

yes you do. You made a positive claim that requires positive evidence. Its that simple.
I know for a fact that Trump didnt achieve anything that was better than whatever Biden did. Real life statistics proves it. I just wanted you to force yourself to take a few steps outside your bubble. I guess it was too much to ask for.

It’s obvious you support Ukraine, and there’s nothing wrong with that, you can support trees for all I care, just don’t make it impossible to have a reasonable debate.

Again, i gave good reasons to support Ukraine and Zelensky. It is you that is impossible to debate.
I have never...ever rejected a good argument for anything. When have you ever tried to have a debate with anyone? Do you even know what a debate is?

[Faust]

TRUMP’S PLAN: EUROPEAN TROOPS TO ENFORCE BUFFER ZONE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE

Trump reportedly plans an 800-mile demilitarized zone between Russia and Ukraine, with British and European troops patrolling the area. Under the proposal, Russia would retain its territorial gains, and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO for 20 years.

Trump's team suggests the US would arm Ukraine to deter future Russian aggression but insists European allies bear the financial and military responsibility for the buffer zone. Zelensky warns such concessions would be “suicidal for Europe.”

Source: Newsweek

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1854888415164072428

I could not find the Newsweek article.

Also I don’t know how accurate the plan is and whether Putin would agree to it. Also should Zelensky agree to it, IMO it is probable the country will tear itself apart as those conditions are significantly worse than the supposed april 2022 ‘treaty’. Not to mention the EU would probably not like paying another cent.

With the current state of the conflict though, for me Ukraine cannot really agree to anything due to dangers of internal civil war. Also Russia probably wants to have the south of Ukraine as well, which can only happen if the conflict does not get frozen and instead continues for a decade or so. Putin might be dead and Russia might collapse before then so I don’t know whether they would even pursue that.

What are your thoughts on a realistic outcome of this war?

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1854888415164072428

I could not find the Newsweek article.

Also I don’t know how accurate the plan is and whether Putin would agree to it. Also should Zelensky agree to it, IMO it is probable the country will tear itself apart as those conditions are significantly worse than the supposed april 2022 ‘treaty’. Not to mention the EU would probably not like paying another cent.

With the current state of the conflict though, for me Ukraine cannot really agree to anything due to dangers of internal civil war. Also Russia probably wants to have the south of Ukraine as well, which can only happen is the conflict does not get frozen and instead continues for a decade or so. Putin might be dead and Russia might collapse before then so I don’t know whether they would even pursue that.

What are your thoughts on a realistic outcome of this war?

These terms are pretty much unacceptable for russians. Putin and Lavrov have both said that they wont accept anything other than total surrender of Ukraine. That means Ukraine must give up all of its military and independence along with all the territories russia wants. On top of that, Ukraine must agree to remain completely vulnerable forever, and never have any allies other than Russia.

This is a no-go for Ukrainians and they wont accept this kind of surrender as long as they have soldiers to fight for their country.

Ukraine could potentially agree to give Russia the territories it wants, but in exchange it would absolutely demand NATO membership. That....is something Russia does not want to grant Ukraine, because Russia wants to occupy Ukraine completely in the long run and NATO membership would screw up those plans.

[Roosta]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Dictators must take a loss in order to stop their aggression. Same goes for all kinds of bullies. Its part of human psychology. As long as aggression gives you what you want, you keep using it as your main tool.

True.

I would go one step further though considering how this invasion was carried out with its scorched earth / eradication policy of the Ukrainian People, Culture & History as it was evil to the core, shelling schools, play grounds, malls, train stations, residential buildings & executing civilians on will all directed to do so by Dicktaker Poo Tin, who doesn't deserve to live IMO !
The Fucker needs a slow death to show others that this kind of shit won't be tolerated as he's way past salvaging his soul.
I'm still fascinated by the glaring fact that all the combined powers at be in the world, all the combined might of the armed forces of the world, who are supplying Ukraine with munitions & support can't eliminate one person for the greater good of humanity.
This prick is running amuck slaughtering the Ukrainians & his own ppl in meat waves, threatening Nuclear Conflict on several occasions, letting his countrymen suffer through sanctions ect while he more or less sits in his office drinking champagne & eating caviar not giving an absolute fuck about his men, country or the world for that matter.
I may be wrong, but I doubt it, as I personally think a line has been crossed as for an ordinary citizen to even think about those things is illegal let alone carry any of them out.

A 7.62 or 50 Cal is quite cheap ya know & a permanent fix at that.

Give the fucker some bait to draw him out, then, bang, all over, red rover !

[LionsDen]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

You are one bizarre kid.


Im not a leftist, so i have no idea what you are talking about. I guess you refer to me as a leftist, which means its 3 times in a row now when you have misjudged me. Don't try to judge people. You have proven again and again that you are a bad judge of character. Ask other people around you to help you out. Don't rely on your own intuition.


yes you do. You made a positive claim that requires positive evidence. Its that simple.
I know for a fact that Trump didnt achieve anything that was better than whatever Biden did. Real life statistics proves it. I just wanted you to force yourself to take a few steps outside your bubble. I guess it was too much to ask for.



Again, i gave good reasons to support Ukraine and Zelensky. It is you that is impossible to debate.
I have never...ever rejected a good argument for anything. When have you ever tried to have a debate with anyone? Do you even know what a debate is?

Take Zelenskys cock out your mouth.
You didn't come up with anything good, "I got my reasons" what's your stupid reasons?


Stop with the whining and the excuses and tell it how it is, you don’t actually care for the U.S or its well being and it's people, all you seem to care about is American taxpayers money going to straight to Zelenskys pocket. If the situation were reversed, I doubt Zelensky would be sending aid to another country.

What gives you or Zelensky the right to demand money from the U.S.? Ukraine are not even a Nato member but now that it's a war they suddenly wants to join.

America has done what it can for Ukraine. If Trump ends the funding here and now, I won’t blame him.

He’s putting his country first, and that’s exactly what every leader should do, they should fix their own fucking shit before even trying to help another country.

There’s a saying, “Before you start fixing everyone else, fix yourself first.” That’s exactly what Trump wants to do, and there’s nothing wrong with that mindset. This is why the majority chose him to win the election, because they believe that he will fix what Biden destroyed for the last four years.

Now, one last thing, and let’s be honest here, just how many doors and windows did you break in your house when you found out Trump had won?

[LionsDen]

"It is you that is impossible to debate.
I have never...ever rejected a good argument for anything"

That’s why you never responded to my message, even though we agreed to continue our debate privately a couple of months ago. Just another keyboard warrior, hiding behind your screen, complaining and demanding funding because your president messed up.

[kellyhound]

Originally Posted by LionsDen ↗

all you seem to care about is American taxpayers money going to straight to Zelenskys pocket. If the situation were reversed, I doubt Zelensky would be sending aid to another country.

What gives you or Zelensky the right to demand money from the U.S.?

You should read this about taxpayers money spending on countries/wars.
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197958571
It's not a give away or straight into anyones pockets. It's meant to boost own economy as the money is spend on military equipment/defence meaning more jobs in that industry plus other countries can now see what are the best weapons nowadays so more orders from other countries pour in now.

Also

90% of Ukraine aid spending stays in the U.S., creating thousands of jobs
Although some may claim U.S. aid vanishes into a cesspool of unchecked Ukrainian corruption, one study has shown that 90% of Ukraine aid dollars are not actually sent to Ukraine after all.

Rather, these funds stay in the U.S., where leading defense contractors have invested tens of billions in over 100 new industrial manufacturing facilities, creating thousands of jobs across at least 38 states directly, with vital subcomponents sourced from all 50 states.

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insigh...orting-ukraine

All the other cheap oneliners on social media to create a hatred against certain governments/people are just bs.


Also Why was the US so hesitant to join ww2?
Most Americans still believed the nation's interests were best served by staying out of foreign conflicts and focusing on problems at home, especially the devastating effects of the Great Depression.

You can replace the latter now with inflation and immigration.


The U.S. entry into the war helped to get the nation's economy back on its feet following the depression. Although just ten years earlier, jobs were very difficult to come by, there were now jobs for nearly everyone who wanted one.

After the war the Marshall Plan was meant to avoid russia to become the greatest contributor to rebuil europe and not all countries became dependent or occupied by russia plus rebuilding also meant Europeans buying american goods. UK, France and Germany got the biggest part of the Marshall Plan and since that day the Economic ties between the US and those European countries are tight.

[William May]

Originally Posted by kellyhound ↗

Russian Major General Klimenko was reportedly hit by an Ukrainian FPV drone while driving a motorcycle with his group between the command and observation post of the 3rd MRB and the forward control post of the 5th MRB.
He was seriously wounded in the head and died on 6 November ’24 in hospital.

Imagine a Major General riding a bike in a war zone

Well, he was probably afraid to ride in any kind of truck or staff car, because these get attacked instantly on being seen.

Apparently, this guy was a shit-head as well, reportedly torturing captured prisoners and I believe torturing and killing a U.S. human rights monitor they caught.

So I am glad they got him. I was hoping to see the video if they have it. I am sure they don't video everything, but the videos they post show the Ukrainians are VERY good at drone work, and I haven't heard of any false claims so far. Everywhere the drone guys work, the battlefield is littered with burnt and destroyed equipment, and dozens or hundreds of Russian corpses. I haven't seen a coherent Russian battle formation in 2 years, mostly they look like rats scurrying around and trying to stay alive.

I hope Trump doesn't abandon the Ukrainians. Perhaps the Europeans will step up and take the slack. I am afraid if Trump "settles" the Ukrainian war, by giving in to Putin, then our own U.S. children and grandchildren will wind up fighting for Europe again. My great-grandfather fought in the Civil War as a Union soldier, my grandfather fought in WW1, and my father fought in WWII. I'm in the first generation in our family that did not get to tour a battlefield in the U.S. or Europe, walking in the mud, or riding in the back of a truck. (although my oldest brother served in the Army in the Vietnam war, but never left the U.S. as they were winding down by then, so actually, it will be our NEXT generation that will be the first to have escaped a war effort.)

In ten years, when Russia tries to seriously rebuild the Warsaw pact, (after they win in Ukraine, of course!) unless the Europeans can put up a decent resistance, the U.S. will be back on the hook. and U.S. kids will be dying again.

My father was a hard-line, anti-Vietnam War person, smelling it was a bunch of political crap with no real purpose. I felt the same about the Iraq invasion and Afghanistan. All that money wasted, and all the U.S. military lives ruined. We will be paying for the Gulf Wars for another 50 years in taking care of seriously wounded troops who will need care for the rest of their lives, and whose lives have been ruined. Where I work, I was the ONLY person asking why we were invading Iraq when all the 9-11 actors were from Saudi Arabia? I was labeled as a "traitor". But that was not the case, and now everyone acknowledges that our efforts and time spent on those wars were useless and costly, and we shouldn't have done them.

We are facing a similar choice now. We can either back Ukraine right to the hilt and victory (and not lose any American lives) or we can fight the Russians (and probably the Chinese, too!) in 10-20 years when Russia rebuilds it's armies and goes after the West again, with untold amounts of money and losses of American lives. People don't understand that THAT CHOICE is being made right now. (And it is being made by people who WILL NOT be participating in that future war, either themselves, or their friends and relatives. Just like most of them did not actually participate in the Vietnam War, Gulf Wars or Afghanistan, leaving it to other to do the work there.)
Just my two pfennigs.