[duntez]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

This is supposedly an actual picture of him from his past. Is Putin really expecting people to buy his "denazify" crap? Double standards all over the place.

People not only believe it, they know it. Only blind will not recognize it or a person who’s in denial because of hate towards Russia or Rus government.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

I saw German TV news when ambassador of Ukr trashed German leader calling him liver sausage or something and Germam officials never responded back. Then they went over Zelenskiy speeches where he on many occasion was giving shit to other western countries in general or leaders...and nothing, silence in return. So this TV channel made this conclusion, that it is unpopular for politicians to say anything bad about him now, because he's like a holy man now and untouchable. They were talking how western press made him this way and now they can't fuck with it ..so that why I said what I said.

Boneface posted a video in this thread where Zelensky is joking about being in the Ukrainian government and them having to “sieg heil” every morning, also about corruption and Jews and so on. It’s pretty cool IMO but I am sure if CNN were to run it subtitled, they would be taken off the air, if not prosecuted

[duntez]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Boneface posted a video in this thread where Zelensky is joking about being in the Ukrainian government and them having to “sieg heil” every morning, also about corruption and Jews and so on.

Like they say - every joke has a little bit of a joke

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

People not only believe it, they know it. Only blind will not recognize it or a person who’s in denial because of hate towards Russia or Rus government.

That's not what I'm debating. It would be ignorant to deny nationalists exist in Ukraine. But for Putin to claim it's a reason for invading Ukraine and his desire to get rid of them, all while having nationalists in his own country standing by his side, speaking at his rallies and functioning in the government is hypocritical.

Its not illegal to be a hypocrite. Just makes him look like more of a clown. It's actually comical how stupid he things everyone is.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Like they say - every joke has a little bit of a joke

Didn’t know that saying but probably true!

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

That's not what I'm debating. It would be ignorant to deny nationalists exist in Ukraine. But for Putin to claim it's a reason for invading Ukraine and his desire to get rid of them, all while having nationalists in his own country standing by his side, speaking at his rallies and functioning in the government is hypocritical.

Its not illegal to be a hypocrite. Just makes him look like more of a clown. It's actually comical how stupid he things everyone is.

Understood. Do you have more any videos of him where he’s doing the same thing? Preferably during Russia time

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

People not only believe it, they know it. Only blind will not recognize it or a person who’s in denial because of hate towards Russia or Rus government.

Nah, people believe it because they are indoctrinated by an authoritarian regime.
Russia itself is full of nazis and nazi tendencies.
Even in these forums, you can see how Russian nazis beat and kill gypsies, homeless people, asians and other "unwanted" ones.

All countries have a small percentage of far right nationalist, including USA and Russia. The story about "denazifying Ukraine" is clear bullshit.

When have authoritarian dictators been honest towards their own people?
When have they been honest to other nations?
The entirety of Russian past in the last 100 years has been founded on lies and misinformation. The entire soviet union was one giant misinformation campaign. Most Russians still believe that soviet union was a "union" and that Russians fought against nazism in second world war.


Putin went completely off the rails during his recent speech where he claimed that Germany, Japan and South Korea are occupied and governed by Americans. Those countries have the highest standard of living in the world( even better than in USA ). If being "occupied" by USA has such a consequence, then Russia should formally apply to be occupied by the US.

Putin then went on to ramble about how the "west" is out to destroy Russia and has always tried to undermine Russia. In reality, the west has always wanted to trade with Russia and expand its businesses there. Thats what got Russia out of its deep recession in the first place.

He then made a bizarre accusation of "the west bombing german cities" during the second world war. Looks like he completely forgot that it was Stalin that requested the British to continue and double down on the bombing campaigns.
Putin also seems to have forgotten that it is the United States that saved Russia from total annihilation by providing a vast amount of military aid...the amount given to Russia in the second world war dwarfs the aid given to Ukraine now.

Its strange to see people living in 21st century, connected to the internet and still not connecting the dots and figuring out that dictators always lie.
Russians know that their dictator is a former KGB agent who specializes in misinformation and manipulation.
Look how quickly Russians forgot when the west said that Russia is gona invade Ukraine any day now....and Putin said that it's western hysteria...and total lie.
Then followed that by invading Ukraine.
He promised do abolish mandatory military service and conscription....and then he declared mobilization.
He then said that the Ukrainians are a "brother nation" and he is not fighting Ukrainians....he is only fighting the nazis. He then captured his "nazis" in azovstal and could have declared his goal to "denazify" Ukraine complete. But he didn't. He actually had a lot of the Azov defenders executed and then released some of the remaining ones, to save his friend from captivity.

The reality is that Russians live under the rule of a ruthless dictator. If you go to the streets to protest...you get beaten and tortured( if you are lucky ). If you say anything that doesn't match the government narrative...you disappear.
And Russians expect the government media to speak the truth?

[duntez]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Nah, people believe it because they are indoctrinated by an authoritarian regime.
Russia itself is full of nazis and nazi tendencies.
Even in these forums, you can see how Russian nazis beat and kill gypsies, homeless people, asians and other "unwanted" ones.

All countries have a small percentage of far right nationalist, including USA and Russia. The story about "denazifying Ukraine" is clear bullshit.

When have authoritarian dictators been honest towards their own people?
When have they been honest to other nations?
The entirety of Russian past in the last 100 years has been founded on lies and misinformation. The entire soviet union was one giant misinformation campaign. Most Russians still believe that soviet union was a "union" and that Russians fought against nazism in second world war.


Putin went completely off the rails during his recent speech where he claimed that Germany, Japan and South Korea are occupied and governed by Americans. Those countries have the highest standard of living in the world( even better than in USA ). If being "occupied" by USA has such a consequence, then Russia should formally apply to be occupied by the US.

Putin then went on to ramble about how the "west" is out to destroy Russia and has always tried to undermine Russia. In reality, the west has always wanted to trade with Russia and expand its businesses there. Thats what got Russia out of its deep recession in the first place.

He then made a bizarre accusation of "the west bombing german cities" during the second world war. Looks like he completely forgot that it was Stalin that requested the British to continue and double down on the bombing campaigns.
Putin also seems to have forgotten that it is the United States that saved Russia from total annihilation by providing a vast amount of military aid...the amount given to Russia in the second world war dwarfs the aid given to Ukraine now.

Its strange to see people living in 21st century, connected to the internet and still not connecting the dots and figuring out that dictators always lie.
Russians know that their dictator is a former KGB agent who specializes in misinformation and manipulation.
Look how quickly Russians forgot when the west said that Russia is gona invade Ukraine any day now....and Putin said that it's western hysteria...and total lie.
Then followed that by invading Ukraine.
He promised do abolish mandatory military service and conscription....and then he declared mobilization.
He then said that the Ukrainians are a "brother nation" and he is not fighting Ukrainians....he is only fighting the nazis. He then captured his "nazis" in azovstal and could have declared his goal to "denazify" Ukraine complete. But he didn't. He actually had a lot of the Azov defenders executed and then released some of the remaining ones, to save his friend from captivity.

The reality is that Russians live under the rule of a ruthless dictator. If you go to the streets to protest...you get beaten and tortured( if you are lucky ). If you say anything that doesn't match the government narrative...you disappear.
And Russians expect the government media to speak the truth?

You went a little of the rail your self. We were not talking about his speech, which I actually couldn’t even finish listening tbh. We were talking or at least I was if Russia and Ukraine are comparable in terms of how far Nazi thing goes within their governments. I’ve posted here all sort of legitimate proof that in Ukr it’s a big deal. Official presidential guards during last NAZI funeral, Nazi collaborators as heroes of Ukr, streets named after Nazi collaborators, Zelenskiy surrounded with the soldiers who has Nazi tank SS devision “dead head” patch on them and etc etc. etc

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

You went a little of the rail your self. We were not talking about his speech, which I actually couldn’t even finish listening tbh. We were talking or at least I was if Russia and Ukraine are comparable in terms of how far Nazi thing goes within their governments. I’ve posted here all sort of legitimate proof that in Ukr it’s a big deal. Official presidential guards during last NAZI funeral, Nazi collaborators as heroes of Ukr, streets named after Nazi collaborators, Zelenskiy surrounded with the soldiers who has Nazi tank SS devision “dead head” patch on them and etc etc. etc

As I mentioned above, the greatest mis-understanding in Russia is that there was a thing called the soviet union. If russians understood the truth about the CCCR then they would understand the entire context of the war, the "russophobia" in the baltics and other neighbouring countries.
There was no soviet union. There was a soviet occupation. The occupied countries were caught between 2 great evils, and locals had to choose a side. Many chose to side with the germans because they seemed as the lesser evil. In reality, people fighting on the nazi side weren't nazis or fighting to promote the german interests. They were fighting for their own independence and autonomy. There are many so called "nazi soldiers/battalions" in my country that are looked up to and seen as the liberators. A lot of my countrymen fought on the side of the nazis...against our own citizens who were drafted into the Red army. Brothers were literally fighting on the opposing sides.
Ukraine had the same past. They don't celebrate their "bandera"'s because they were nazis....they celebrate them because they fought against Russians, and for their own independence.
Also, nazi symbolism doesn't really mean anything unless there is some action behind it. There are many guys who have nazi symbols just because they think its cool. I for example have a large "Hezbollah" flag, and if someone paid a visit to me, they could start screaming that I'm some kind of militant Islamist extremist...where as in reality, the flag was a gift from a friend who served in Lebanon.
If you want to say that Ukraine has a nazi problem, so serious that it warrants a full on invasion, then you should have an abundance of speeches mimicking Hitler, made by Ukrainian leaders.
The reality is, that Russia, after capturing the occupied territories hasn't really found any significant number of nazis. Even the most hardcore nazis captured in Azovstal weren't nazis enough to parade them on the streets of Russia and they were let go.

So...before you claim that someone who looks up to a nazi collaborator is a "nazi", first, make sure that they are looking up to those collaborators because they themselves are nazis, not because they were fighting against the Russian occupation.

I'm from Estonia(Baltics) and Germans were seen as the lesser evil here, and locals that sided with the nazis did so not because they were nazis or wanted Germans to be here...they did so only to get rid of the Russians...which were seen as worse of the two. Im almost certain that Ukrainian "nazis" are looked up to not because they collaborated with Germans, but because they fought for their own country, and were in some way instrumental in regaining independence.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

As I mentioned above, the greatest mis-understanding in Russia is that there was a thing called the soviet union. If russians understood the truth about the CCCR then they would understand the entire context of the war, the "russophobia" in the baltics and other neighbouring countries.
There was no soviet union. There was a soviet occupation. The occupied countries were caught between 2 great evils, and locals had to choose a side. Many chose to side with the germans because they seemed as the lesser evil. In reality, people fighting on the nazi side weren't nazis or fighting to promote the german interests. They were fighting for their own independence and autonomy. There are many so called "nazi soldiers/battalions" in my country that are looked up to and seen as the liberators. A lot of my countrymen fought on the side of the nazis...against our own citizens who were drafted into the Red army. Brothers were literally fighting on the opposing sides.
Ukraine had the same past. They don't celebrate their "bandera"'s because they were nazis....they celebrate them because they fought against Russians, and for their own independence.
Also, nazi symbolism doesn't really mean anything unless there is some action behind it. There are many guys who have nazi symbols just because they think its cool. I for example have a large "Hezbollah" flag, and if someone paid a visit to me, they could start screaming that I'm some kind of militant Islamist extremist...where as in reality, the flag was a gift from a friend who served in Lebanon.
If you want to say that Ukraine has a nazi problem, so serious that it warrants a full on invasion, then you should have an abundance of speeches mimicking Hitler, made by Ukrainian leaders.
The reality is, that Russia, after capturing the occupied territories hasn't really found any significant number of nazis. Even the most hardcore nazis captured in Azovstal weren't nazis enough to parade them on the streets of Russia and they were let go.

So...before you claim that someone who looks up to a nazi collaborator is a "nazi", first, make sure that they are looking up to those collaborators because they themselves are nazis, not because they were fighting against the Russian occupation.

I'm from Estonia(Baltics) and Germans were seen as the lesser evil here, and locals that sided with the nazis did so not because they were nazis or wanted Germans to be here...they did so only to get rid of the Russians...which were seen as worse of the two. Im almost certain that Ukrainian "nazis" are looked up to not because they collaborated with Germans, but because they fought for their own country, and were in some way instrumental in regaining independence.

I knew ur from Baltics all the major hate comes from there. Towards Soviets/Russia

I’ll tell you this, there are a lot of people in Baltics who think the way you think and that’s why your countries do what they do with the veterans who fought on NaZI side. I’m not from there and not going to battle you here. But there are much more people who thinks otherwise. You call them brainwashed … well, they will call you the same in return.
Historically are you guys closer to Germany/Austria or eastern lands? Were Germans treated your people the same they did Jewish, Russians, Ukrainians, Jypses etc? Or were you considered as some what decent blood the closest one to Aryan so to say