[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Also as for people reposting/translating articles about the bombed convoy, you understand it was going towards Russian controlled territory?

I guess that part got lost in the translation..

No, it did not get lost in translation. Several of the quotes I posted stated so. But why does this matter? They are all still civilians, all the same. And this is even further proof that Russia bombs innocent civilians too. According to you, pro-Russian Ukrainians, which means that Russia bombs the people it says its there to protect.

It's being reported that some were going to meet with loved ones in occupied areas to bring them supplies and other things. Even if they were ALL heading there permanently that doesn't make them any less innocent victims.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

RT is full of hot air. These are the guys that were reporting all was well in Kupyansk at the east side of the town when the west side had literally been taken by Ukrainians. Also when the northern side of the Antonovsky bridge was first being hit with Himars, there was an RT crew on the southern side saying everything was fine and that missiles were being shot down. Willful misleading reporting.

I will request a ban for a month if you can produce a single article

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Zelenskyy: "We are taking our decisive step by signing Ukraine's application for accelerated accession to NATO."

Decisive step alright

If this is what winning looks like.. imagine Ukraine losing.. would that be half of the country instead of a quarter?
But you are right at least they didn’t lose half their country

[Abor]

The idea of civilized war is a Western European concept. Real war knows no boundaries if the Taliban, ISIS, and Viet Kong showed anything, especially against an overwhelming foe like the US.

Did you forget what both sides did to each other in WW2? Or even why the US prevents the ICC from investigating US war crimes in Afghanistan or Iraq, citing they have no jurisdiction over the US. But then conveniently applauds Finland for bringing up accusations in the ICC over Russia.

The US is guilty of a lot of direct and indirect deaths that get swept under the rug and covered with mass amounts of propaganda and "freedom and democracy" which are simply cover words for neo-colonialism and keeping up the US status quo.

200k civilians dead due to the Iraq and Afghan invasions that international human rights groups cite that conveniently are never mentioned in Western media. Zelenskyy is simply a western stooge that replaced a Pro-Russian one and why Russia is pissed. Both were "elected" if you remember correctly but it's simply a power and influence projection between the US and Russia.

Because honestly, how comfortable would the US be if Canada or Mexico elected pro-Russian or pro-Chinese leadership that wanted to park missiles in their countries?

Every pro-democratic group in an adversarial country is fighting for freedom but domestic groups who adhere to other ideologies are considered terrorists. Double-standard much? You keep these fringe groups small so they'll never gain any popular support here the same way those countries try to keep their pro-democracy groups small. If anything the US needs to respect other forms of rule and not think its democratic norms are the end-all-be-all of civilization. Cause every country who thought that eventually becomes the enemy sooner or later.

Google the last few elections in Ukraine from 2000-present and you'll see 30-50%+ of the people in the areas annexed by Russia are ethnic Russians who speak Russian vs Ukrainian and have historically supported Russia's candidate in Ukrainian elections. They WANT to be a part of Russia which western news conveniently never cites.

Moreover, the forced conscription by Russia is now gaining news traction but Ukraine has been preventing their eligible men from fleeing and forced service since February. But not a PEEP about that from Western news.

Divide and conquer was used by the British to keep their influence in their colonies and the same concept applies to current US power projections in competition areas. e.g. Ukraine, Taiwan, South Korea, etc. If the US truly cared about democracy and freedom it would have a much larger role in nation-building in Africa and other countries that don't conveniently encircle US adversaries.

The US is deathly afraid China will gain greater influence that undermines the legitimacy of Western norms. Because if a capitalistic authoritarian government can produce a higher standard of living and gross individual income it negates the touted benefits of democracy and Western rule of law. The rise of right-wing crazy demagogues shows a weakness in democracies and the inherent intolerance of a larger conservative base forced to integrate more progressive norms.

[duntez]

“ Who struck at the column with civilians in Zaporizhzhia - analysis of Rybar.
This morning, civilians waiting to leave the liberated territory from Ukrainian Zaporozhye were hit by an artillery strike. A shell (presumably 155 mm) hit the site at the Orekhovsky car market, where columns were formed to cross the line of contact. According to official statements, 24 people died and more than 30 were injured. Naturally, the Ukrainian side immediately accused the RF Armed Forces of shelling the convoy. Rybar's team analyzed the direction of the impact, the nature of the spread of soil and fragments. We established that the blow was delivered from the north-western direction - from the side of the city. If you look at what military facilities are on the trajectory of the strike, then at the address of st. Musical 4b we will find the military unit 3033 of the National Guard of Ukraine (coordinates 47.79788978589064, 35.22518575082353). Today's shelling of one's own citizens is intended to demonstrate that any attempt to leave the territory to the Russian Federation is not only undesirable, but will be punishable by death.”

[V87Beast]

So Ukraine joins Nato.. ww3 starts in EU.

I just hope internet will be fine so i can post stuff if front line come to Croatia. Damn i need get go pros and some DJI drones.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Abor ↗

The idea of civilized war is a Western European concept. Real war knows no boundaries if the Taliban, ISIS, and Viet Kong showed anything, especially against an overwhelming foe like the US.

Did you forget what both sides did to each other in WW2? Or even why the US prevents the ICC from investigating US war crimes in Afghanistan or Iraq, citing they have no jurisdiction over the US. But then conveniently applauds Finland for bringing up accusations in the ICC over Russia.

The US is guilty of a lot of direct and indirect deaths that get swept under the rug and covered with mass amounts of propaganda and "freedom and democracy" which are simply cover words for neo-colonialism and keeping up the US status quo.

200k civilians dead due to the Iraq and Afghan invasions that international human rights group cite that conveniently are never mentioned in Western media. Zelenskyy is simply a western stooge that replaced a Pro-Russian one and why Russia is pissed. Both were "elected" if you remember correctly but it's simply a power and influence projection between the US and Russia.

Because honestly, how comfortable would the US be if Canada or Mexico elected pro-Russian or pro-Chinese leadership that wanted to park missiles in their countries?

Every pro-democratic group in an adversarial country is fighting for freedom but domestic groups who adhere to other ideologies are considered terrorists. Double-standard much?

Did you read the very first post in this thread posted by the moderator Kellyhound?

No war pics/vids or personal attacks or derailing by bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with the current war.

There is a whole other discussion thread where many of us agree that the US has plenty of skeletons in the closet... and that they are directly involved in this war for reasons many don't even want to admit.

This stuff has been discussed over and over again and it completely derails the current situation this thread was created to discuss.

I will speak for myself but will venture to say that some of us (Americans) are completely conscious of our governments actions in the past as well as their role in this war. We are also aware of tactics of our media. I have stated these things SO MANY TIMES and yet... some people aren't absorbing that fact and keep making comments about it.

There are a shit ton of people around the western world that are fully conscious and criticize their government and their practices, which luckily in the United States, free speech allows that.

Anyway, I understand your points more than anyone who opposes me is comprehending, but this thread is not the time or place.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

“ Who struck at the column with civilians in Zaporizhzhia - analysis of Rybar.
This morning, civilians waiting to leave the liberated territory from Ukrainian Zaporozhye were hit by an artillery strike. A shell (presumably 155 mm) hit the site at the Orekhovsky car market, where columns were formed to cross the line of contact. According to official statements, 24 people died and more than 30 were injured. Naturally, the Ukrainian side immediately accused the RF Armed Forces of shelling the convoy. Rybar's team analyzed the direction of the impact, the nature of the spread of soil and fragments. We established that the blow was delivered from the north-western direction - from the side of the city. If you look at what military facilities are on the trajectory of the strike, then at the address of st. Musical 4b we will find the military unit 3033 of the National Guard of Ukraine (coordinates 47.79788978589064, 35.22518575082353). Today's shelling of one's own citizens is intended to demonstrate that any attempt to leave the territory to the Russian Federation is not only undesirable, but will be punishable by death.”

Yes, looks like another tennis match of the blame game again. "He did it! No, he did it!".

It will be interesting to see how this develops over the coming days with all the "independent analysts" posting their remarks.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Yes, looks like another tennis match of the blame game again. "He did it! No, he did it!".

It will be interesting to see how this develops over the coming days with all the "independent analysts" posting their remarks.

Well, I haven’t checked that yet, but if trajectory is correct, there is nothing left to prove anymore tbh

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Well, I haven’t checked that yet, but if trajectory is correct, there is nothing left to prove anymore tbh

Time will tell. Either way, it is horrible.