[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

What about the dude with the Soviet warrior avatar?

That's describes duntez and jubodrag, forgot about that one.

Originally Posted by dandroid

Do they perceive the war as going well for Russia?

Can't really speak for jubo as he's new on here but I think duntez has probably accepted this will not end favorably for Russia.

[dandroid]

So, Ukr force numbers. Original UA + volunteers... What would that number be?

[WonderMomma]

dandroid
Below, I'm quoting this article from MSN about losses as of nearly a week ago. Take it with a grain of salt, however as it is main stream media.

I don't read/watch MSN, CNN, FOX and never quote them but this is the closest thing I could find to address your questions after a quick search.

But Faust will keep saying I do. Faust is Polish, living in Germany... but absolutely hates the west and everything having to do with the west. None of us understand his obsession with Putin's penis but he behaves as if he's his number one concubine and on RF payroll. Faust condemns the "global/western media" but quotes them all the time when it suits him.

He also has me on ignore but constantly makes cloaked and very personal insults towards me bringing my family/personal life into his nonsense. That should tell you a lot. Faust is 100% pro-Russian as if he was born and raised in Moscow, who will take anything you say and twist it into fantasy as well as read your mind.

Duntez is Ukrianian, from Crimea but has lived in the US for 20 years. His family still lives in Crimea. So he actually has a dog in this fight, if you will. Duntez doesn't necessarily agree with Russia invading Ukraine, condemns civilian deaths but doesn't believe any of the war crimes against citizens in areas like Bucha, Izium, Kharkiv, Kupiansk (etc.) that Russia has committed. Overall, Duntez has been much more "reasonable" and easier to debate with but for me personally, I've had to cease discussions with him about much as he thinks that Yanukovych (2014 Ukrainian President who was a criminal Russian puppet) was wrongfully removed and that the rising up of Ukrainian citizens during the Maidan protests was all neo-nazi's and 100% funded by the west, among many other things that I won't get into.

Anyway, here is the article... there are several referenced links within the article so you can go directly to the site here if you wish to see those: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ll/ar-AA13rkGY

The number of military and civilian deaths so far is likely to be in the tens of thousands


As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine enters its ninth month, the number of military and civilian deaths caused by the conflict grows ever higher.

The Guardian reported that “about 1,000 bodies” of military personnel, civilian adults and children have been exhumed by Ukrainian forces in the recently liberated region of Kharkiv. This included “the 447 bodies found at a mass burial site” in the strategically important city of Izium.

The discovery will add to the number of civilian deaths since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine in February. For the period 24 February to 2 October, the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) put the civilian death toll at 6,114, with a further 9,132 people injured. The OHCHR added that it “believes that the actual figures are considerably higher”.

Reaching any firm conclusions over the true number of military and civilian deaths throughout the war is difficult, but we can look at the figures given by a range of military, expert and news sources.

The number of military and civilian deaths so far is likely to be in the tens of thousands
As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine enters its ninth month, the number of military and civilian deaths caused by the conflict grows ever higher.

Ukrainian civilian casualties

In early June, an unnamed Ukrainian official told The New York Times that at least 40,000 Ukrainian civilians had been killed or injured since the war began, but offered no further details.

The latest figures included in the OHCHR report says that, in total, there have been 15,246 civilian casualties recorded in Ukraine since the start of the war. Most have been caused by “the use of explosive weapons with wide area effects, including shelling from heavy artillery, multiple launch rocket systems, missiles and air strikes”, said the report.

However, the OHCHR believes that the figure is an underestimate. Information from locations where there are “intense hostilities” means that many reports are pending corroboration, particularly in areas such as Mariupol, Izium Lysychansk, Popasna and Sievierodonetsk.

Russian military casualties
Russia rarely gives estimates for its military deaths, with the latest official tally given by defence minister Sergei Shoigu on 21 September, as Moscow announced a “partial mobilisation” of up to 300,000 reservists to support its floundering military campaign in Ukraine.

At the time, Shoigu said that 5,937 Russian soldiers had been killed since the start of the conflict, giving the first official figure since 25 March, when Russian military officials said that 1,351 soldiers had died, according to Reuters.

The Ukrainian estimate of Russian deaths is far higher, with Kyiv’s defence ministry claiming that 69,220 soldiers from the invading army have died.

It is extremely difficult to build an accurate picture of military deaths and casualties on both sides of the conflict, with estimates given by both Moscow and Kyiv likely to be inaccurate.

The number of externally verified military deaths stands at 7,184 according to the latest figures given by Mediazona as of 7 October. The independent Russian media outlet has worked alongside the BBC to collate data on Russian soldiers killed in the war. But the number “does not reflect the real level of losses”, said Mediazona, with data collected through public reports of deaths including “posts by relatives, news in regional media, and reports from local authorities”. It believes the true number of Russian military deaths to be in the “tens of thousands”.

According to FullFact, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) estimates the number of Russian military deaths to be around 25,000, adding that this was the figure given by Defence Secretary Ben Wallace during a House of Commons debate on 5 September. However, the fact-checking site noted that Wallace “used the same figure in June while attending a NATO summit” so the number may now be “out of date”.

Speaking to Newsweek, Michael Clarke, visiting professor in the department of war studies at King’s College London, said that while the number given by the Ukrainian MoD might be “too high” it “may not be too far off the mark when all the evidence gets sifted”. He added that his estimate of Russian deaths was somewhere between 30,000 to 40,000, including mercenaries and Syrian groups.

What about the Ukrainian military?

Ukraine has given few estimates of its total death toll. In August, Ukraine’s commander-in-chief, General Valeriy Zaluzhnyi, said 9,000 Ukrainian military personnel had been killed since the start of the war.

The figure “appeared to be the first provided by Ukraine’s military top brass” since the beginning of the invasion, with Zaluzhnyi providing no further details including “whether the figure he cited included all service personnel killed in action, such as border guards”, said Reuters.

US intelligence agencies have given broadly similar figures, according to The New York Times, estimating that “5,500 to 11,000 Ukrainian troops had been killed” while “more than 18,000” had been wounded.

How can we be sure of the figures?

Obtaining accurate information about military deaths is “notoriously difficult”, said FullFact, with estimates relying on “a combination of intercepted communications on both sides, satellite imagery and ‘contact reports’ where troops in battle estimate how much damage they have inflicted on the other side”.

All these sources and their calculations also involve “an element of guesswork”. And it is important to note that both Russia and Ukraine have a “vested interest” in making the given figures “suit their needs”, said the site.

[dandroid]

Thank you... Grain of salt taken... But helpful nonetheless

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Yeah, Faust, duntez, byla are the ones brave enough to broadcast their ignorance. We had three or four others who were either banned or quit by themselves

None of those had a nervous breakdown on the level of your team though, threatening to take down the site and even to k*** themselves.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-fee...reconstruction

According to Zelensky, Ukraine has not “received a single cent for the implementation” of the plan.

The Kiev independent is weirdly enough not that great a source but to the likes of you it is probably Nobel prize level because of their independence

[dandroid]

Just for my sake... Since I'm new to these threads in particular...Faust... You see the invasion as a good, justifiable idea?

[Faust]

I think the invasion is a bad idea; I understand that Russia had goals which required boots on the ground; for example to get valuable data from pentagon funded research ( https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1502103583466139652 https://www.defense.gov/News/Release...-other-former/ )among other stuff, but the initial military goals could have been completed easily by just using cruise missiles, drones and maybe small yield tactical nukes, to be clear; military targets only.

We are not allowed to mention earlier invasions here, but I’ll say that in my opinion no invasion has ever been ‘successful’.

I do believe a pre-emptive strike can be a necessary evil. Russia had reason to believe that what is happening on Ukrainian soil right now, would be happening in Russian territory were it not for their “special military operation”.

It was a matter of time before other parties took control of Ukraine anyway, if Boneface and “misanthropic division” are to be believed.

[dandroid]

"Russia had reason to believe that what is happening on Ukrainian soil right now, would be happening in Russian territory were it not for their “special military operation”."

Can you elaborate on this part?

[Faust]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

"Russia had reason to believe that what is happening on Ukrainian soil right now, would be happening in Russian territory were it not for their “special military operation”."

Can you elaborate on this part?

Only western sources

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/ukra...om-russia.html

https://theowp.org/ukraine-declares-...a-from-russia/

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2021/...crimea-threat/

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...t-east/141577/

https://nypost.com/2022/03/16/ukrain...imea-invasion/

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ea-2021-11-17/

If you limit your google searches to only show results before 1-1-2022 you will find many valuable articles

Also you can use that for example to search for “ukraine” + “nazi” + BBC and you will find western media claiming there were nazis in control in ukraine and whatnot. But if you don’t limit it to anything before 1-1-2022 you will only get biased articles

Here is an example

https://www.google.com/search?q=ukra...max%3A1-1-2022

This is Russian propaganda according to people on this board, yet it was written by western journalists funded by European and English governments

If any BBC journalist now dares to even mention the word nazi in relation to Ukraine, he gets fired, cancelled and placed on an Ukrainian kill-list
So much for freedom of speech lol

So really, compare this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ukra...max%3A1-1-2022

To this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ukraine+nazi+bbc

A real journalist like myself will look for sources. Whereas a fake journalist will only regurgitate their governments statements and propaganda. Beware of fake journalists (especially on this board) and learn to do your own research.

Also try and listen to people like Chomsky or Oliver Stone, Mearsheimer, and maybe even 90s era politicians. They have valuable insight and predicted this exact conflict many years ago

[WonderMomma]

Faust calling himself a "real" journalist.

I've truly seen it all now.

By "journalists on this board" he means me. I made the mistake of mentioning that I've written some pieces about the war for a personal website and now I'm some Anderson Cooper loving "western journalist". I am not. I don't get paid or assigned to write anything and never claimed to be an official journalist. I write things because (as you will come to know) I enjoy the process of gathering information and summarizing it when it's a subject that interests me.

Take everything that Faust says with a DUMP TRUCK of salt. As you can see, he believes that Russia has justification in using violence to steal territory that doesn't belong to it, even if he doesn't think the invasion is "right". Personally, I think Faust does approve of the invasion and revels in all the death and destruction. That is just a personal opinion based on his behavior. Much of his conclusions are based on pure fantasy, conjecture and aims to confuse and divert.

One recent example being a video someone shared of a Ukrainian family; kids and a father living on the front lines... the kids wanted to leave, the father refused. Ukrainian soldiers tell the child to try to convince her father to leave and that they will return the next day to help them. The child says they don't have any money. Unfortunately upon their return to help the family they found the father deceased.

Faust replied immediately saying "They were charging money for the evacuation?" implying that the UA army was charging money to evacuate civilians when she was most likely referring to how they would live and survive after evacuating. But it wasn't clarified so he ran with it. That's just a tiny example.

He also believes that the Russian media outlet "RT" has never lied or misled. I provided a few examples of RT being caught in misinformation and he discounted it without even investigating it further and criticized the sources used in the example. That's when I gave up on talking to him. lol

There's a legitimate reason why discussions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Vietnam and other conflicts are against the rules to discuss in here and why he will never let you forget that. He is dependent on "whataboutism" as a way to answer some very difficult questions that he has no answers for. Faust is the reason it's forbidden. You can ask him why the sky is blue and he will relate it to my father fighting in Vietnam.

Another thing he does constantly is drag other people into his argument, such as byla, another pro-Russian member here who generally stays out of the debates/arguments/drama, and as he is currently doing with another member involved in these UA/RU war threads, Boneface.

Boneface has spent time on the ground in Ukraine, both in 2014 and this year as part of the AZOV regiment. He is an American nationalist (apologies if that is not the proper term) who created a group called the "Misanthropic Division", I think, during his time in Ukraine during the events in 2014.

I may have gotten some of that wrong and I leave it to Boneface to clarify or correct, should he feel the need to. What I can tell you with certainty is that Faust LOVES to use Boneface as an example of his theories.

While the war in Ukraine does indeed involve nationalist representation fighting against the Russians... Faust and every other pro-Russian supporter I've ever talked to do not have an explanation as to why Putin uses the excuse to "denazify" Ukraine to slaughter, pillage and plunder.. when Russia and the Russian government have a far higher far right nationalist representation. Other than the obvious, it's merely an excuse and a means to an end to take the entire country, if Putin had his way. But you will never hear him admit that as it's the #1 tool in his arsenal.

The biggest and most important fact in all of this that anyone who is pro-Russian will not address or acknowledge is that Russia does not belong in Ukraine. Donbas/Crimea are Ukrainian territory until Ukraine decides to part ways with them.

Apologies for the novels... I am pretty known for that. Just trying to save you some time.