[dandroid]

I don't think that anyone was ever saying that Ukraine was without very unsavory elements, features and people. I think that people recognize that consciousness within could use some updating. A lot of Eastern Europe fits that bill. But it seems ludicrous to call Ukraine, in total, a Nazi state worthy of 'righteous' invasion.

Even the US goes to the UN when it has a theoretical Cassus Belli. But Russia has done what it always has done. Soviet style aggression. Roll them tanks in.

Without question, however, media has whitewashed Ukraine. But the bottom line is that their sovereignty has been challenged.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

Without question, however, media has whitewashed Ukraine. But the bottom line is that their sovereignty has been challenged.

Yeah, the media has largely whitewashed them. I sometimes get annoyed on Twitter when I'm looking around some pro-Ukr group and members are being super ignorant about basic stuff and literally believing that every Russian soldier is murdering/raping wholesale and bathing in blood literally. Propaganda has a tendency to very openly make the biggest fools of the most gullible. I've noticed in Russian groups this seems to be even more common, reversed towards Ukrainians. Kremlin has very tight controls on information. Probably the biggest bull crap they believe is the whole "NATO soldiers" thing. Like they just can't imagine it's a Ukrainian firing that Javelin, that a Ukrainian is pulling the lanyard of that M777. Nope, to them it's western NATO soldiers because that's the only explanation that saves them face that they're not being smashed by some "Bandera Nazis". They cannot deal with it mentally. I recall that conversation between a Russian soldier who was talking to his mom who was highly brainwashed and the son was trying to convince her it's Ukrainians shooting at him and his unit. She just couldn't believe it. Bizarre.

Bottom line is Russia started this shit and everyone of substance outside Russia knows this. Perhaps they should stop trying to install puppets in other countries they have no right to and then acting like the "surprised victim" when the puppet gets kicked out. No one buys it. I regret the amount of life lost but they need to suffer for this. There's no other way and "negotiations" will only serve to give Russia a break to regroup and come back to war again. Putin, his inner circle and staunchest supporters need to not exist. Off switch. The modern world doesn't need this shit.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

I think the invasion is a bad idea; I understand that Russia had goals which required boots on the ground; for example to get valuable data from pentagon funded research ( https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1502103583466139652 https://www.defense.gov/News/Release...-other-former/ )among other stuff, but the initial military goals could have been completed easily by just using cruise missiles, drones and maybe small yield tactical nukes, to be clear; military targets only.

We are not allowed to mention earlier invasions here, but I’ll say that in my opinion no invasion has ever been ‘successful’.

I do believe a pre-emptive strike can be a necessary evil. Russia had reason to believe that what is happening on Ukrainian soil right now, would be happening in Russian territory were it not for their “special military operation”.

It was a matter of time before other parties took control of Ukraine anyway, if Boneface and “misanthropic division” are to be believed.

"I do believe a pre-emptive strike can be a necessary evil. Russia had reason to believe that what is happening on Ukrainian soil right now, would be happening in Russian territory were it not for their “special military operation”."

What exactly was happening on Ukrainian soil that was so dangerous to Russia that it warranted a full scale invasion?
Just curious.

Also,
"WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread"

Whats the point in that?
Did you want to suggest that they should have left the pathogens in the labs so they could be blown up...aerosolized and spread into the population?
Or are you suggesting that they should have done it sooner?
Im not sure whats the point.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

Thank you... Grain of salt taken... But helpful nonetheless

In order to fully understand the conflict in 2014 you need to really know Ukraine. Since independence there were always west vs south east Ukraine on every presidential election. For west Ukraine people like Bandera who gave an oath to Hitler and whose responsible for slaughtering Polaks in Volyn, kids women, men killed in thousands and Jewish, Russians... he is a hero. For South Eastern Ukrainians he is a traitor and a nazi scumbag. For western Ukraine USSR heroes are overrated or not heroes at all ( even Ukrainians), for us they are the real heroes who made that victory happen. So in 2014 legitimate president was overthrown. Yes he was a scumbag, but he was elected and rightfully kept his place. Yanukovich ( president of Ukraine) agreed to all the terms of opposition including him leaving his post and a new presidential election where he will not take a part of. That agreement was signed by president and opposition and it was witnessed by western representatives from Poland, France and Germany ( if not not mistaken). The same day he left the capitol and opposition stormed the governmental buildings breaking that agreement. Now, new so called "goverment" placed itself on a throne while sharing West Ukraine ideology that I have mentioned above. For us ( south eastern Ukrainians) this was a bullshit! Because we didn't agree or choose this goverment... why should we accept it? Wondermomma said that I think everyone over there was NAZI, thats not true, there were regular people too. But I did say that one of the leaders of Maidan was far-right Tyagnebok who is the leader of "Svoboda" ( freedom) party. To me he and his people are NAZIs, the most active people of Maidan were deff far right nationalists for whom Bandera is a hero and everyone who doesn't think that way in Ukraine is an enemy.
So, long story short...I believe that people of Donbas had a right to stand up against this Maidan. New government portrayed them for internal and western consumption as pro Russian terrorists, Russians and started anti-terrorist operation by sending army to deal with them. All this time the claimed they were fighting regular Russian army. Battalions like AZOV, Aydar, "tornado" and others were formed. "tornado" was raping, killing and tortuing Donbas people. It was proven. Donbas took weapons and start fighting in return. Russia sided with Donbas while west with Kyiv.
In everything whats going on right now I blame leaders of Maidan and those who supported them and portrayed them as Ukrainian people choice, when it wasn't for over 6 millions of Ukrainians at least, the real number, im sure is much more.
I do not support this war. But I do recognize the reasons for that. As an ex deputy prime minister of Australia in his interview said " Did Russia have the reasons to react to what was going on in Ukraine? Absolutely. Was the war the right choice? Absolutely not" I posted this part of interview here and tried to find it but fail. My citation maybe not exact, but the meaning is the same.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by dandroid ↗

I don't think that anyone was ever saying that Ukraine was without very unsavory elements, features and people. I think that people recognize that consciousness within could use some updating. A lot of Eastern Europe fits that bill. But it seems ludicrous to call Ukraine, in total, a Nazi state worthy of 'righteous' invasion.

Even the US goes to the UN when it has a theoretical Cassus Belli. But Russia has done what it always has done. Soviet style aggression. Roll them tanks in.

Without question, however, media has whitewashed Ukraine. But the bottom line is that their sovereignty has been challenged.

Do you call this sovereignty?

[SinisterNm]

Originally Posted by byla ↗

Ukrainian BMP and soldiers blown up in the Kharkov region, mine.

Damn, how could they miss the 30 mines strung across the road.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by SinisterNm ↗

Damn, how could they miss the 30 mines strung across the road.

In Rus TC they are saying it was controllable mine. Meaning that BMP didn’t run over it, rather Rus detonated it once BMP was right next to it. So I assume it was hidden and they didn’t see it

[SinisterNm]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

In Rus TC they are saying it was controllable mine. Meaning that BMP didn’t run over it, rather Rus detonated it once BMP was right next to it. So I assume it was hidden and they didn’t see it

of course its some russian controlled anti nazi device on tele, you can see two rows of about 15 TM-62 anti tank mines in the video i posted and kinda in one blya posted

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Putin, his inner circle and staunchest supporters need to not exist. Off switch. The modern world doesn't need this shit.

I kind of feel the same about imperialist nations

[duntez]

Originally Posted by SinisterNm ↗

of course its some russian controlled anti nazi device on tele, you can see two rows of about 15 TM-62 anti tank mines in the video i posted and kinda in one blya posted

Yeah, I didn’t see. Than it’s worth than I thought. In this case it reminds me of that Russian BTR who ran over mines that were clearly visible