[DrKGSmiff]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Well, I would split this problem into 2.

1) If the soldier was a conscript...then yeah, he did what his country ordered him to do, and mocking him is probably unnecessary. Overall, it would still be beneficial and maybe save thousands of lives...but still, on an individual level...it would be unnecessary. Being maimed is already punishment enough.

2) If the soldier was a volunteer, then sure, go ahead and mock all day long. A volunteer who goes to kill innocent people for money is equivalent to an assassin...a murderer. If I accept $10 000 from someone to go and kill my neighbor, then I don't deserve respect. I deserve a severe punishment.
If a Ruzzian accepts a $10 000 deal and murders his neighbors...Ukrainians, then he too deserves a punishment.

In general, mocking returning soldiers is a good way(maybe the only meaningful way) for the general russian population to show that they don't support the war and that fighting in the führers' army is nothing glamorous. If this happened on a larger scale, then it would be incredibly demoralizing for the army. Just think about it...how would you feel if you knew that there was gona be another wave of mobilization and those who get mobilized risk with their life, may get maimed and then will get mocked afterward. They would know that they will not become heroes. They would start to figure out ways of getting out of conscription. Perhaps even join the resistance or go protesting.

You’re exactly the sort of person who doesn’t deserve the shelter of a country worth living in.

The creation of the volunteer army is the second greatest bulwark against tyranny that the world has ever seen, second only behind the creation of an armed populace.

If you ever find yourself in the position of wanting to take out your anger on a volunteer soldier, returned from a war with which you don’t agree, remind yourself that you’re taking out your anger on the 2nd line of defense, and that YOU were the front line; the front line that failed.

While that soldier was away, getting shelled to hold ground you don’t think he should have been sent to take, YOU were home with the policy makers who orchestrated the war that sent him there.

If you’re a Russian who doesn’t think Russia’s army should be in Ukraine, then your issue is with the Kremlin, not the soldier who got deployed. One of you was in Moscow, sipping coffee, while the other was far away. One of you was at home with the tyrannical leadership, while the other was trying not to get killed by its directives. If anything, YOU failed the soldier by not doing your duty to end the war from the place where it could most readily be ended.

A volunteer soldier sometimes carries out orders to do things that we don’t like. Sometimes that soldier manages to stand up and refuse to do them, but the responsibility for his having been ordered to do them in the first place lies with the citizenry who allows that leadership to stand.

War criminals should be tried, subject to due-process, and brought to justice where justice is due- but there is no justice in lynching, or even mocking a soldier wearing your own flag. Be a patriot and take your grievances to his commander, where they rightly lie.

[Roosta]

Very debatable topic from both sides, so much so, that I suppose that we can agree to disagree as there's no right or wrong answer here as it's a very opinionated topic & many a viewpoint as such, but one thing's for sure & that is, when the bullets start flying, the politics get thrown out the window.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by DrKGSmiff ↗

You’re exactly the sort of person who doesn’t deserve the shelter of a country worth living in.

And you assume that based on what?

I can safely say that I do infact deserve to live in the country that I'm living in...a good country. Why?
Because I'm a good person doing good things and promoting values that are good for my country.
Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't mean that you can jump to such extremes as to say that someone doesn't deserve to live in a decent country.

The creation of the volunteer army is the second greatest bulwark against tyranny that the world has ever seen, second only behind the creation of an armed populace.

No.
The creation of the volunteer army can also be the greatest tool that's imposing tyranny and eroding the freedom of people.

Do nazi soldiers that voluntarily joined the SS squads deserve respect and praise? Were they the first bulwark against tyranny? No.


You seem to completely fail to understand that it matters who you fight with and what you fight for. Noone deserves respect for fighting against freedom and the interests of their own people.

If you ever find yourself in the position of wanting to take out your anger on a volunteer soldier, returned from a war with which you don’t agree, remind yourself that you’re taking out your anger on the 2nd line of defense, and that YOU were the front line; the front line that failed.While that soldier was away, getting shelled to hold ground you don’t think he should have been sent to take, YOU were home with the policy makers who orchestrated the war that sent him there.

And again...no. A volunteer is not the "second line of defense". A mobik might be a second line of defense. A volunteer could have remained home with "ME" and the "policy makers". If everyone remained home with the policy makers then there would be no war. It would be an internal issue of Russia and that's it.
You fail to grasp the idea of volunteering.

Also, you fail to understand that not doing anything is far better than actively working towards making things worse.
A person sitting in Moscow, sipping coffee and evading conscription/not volunteering is doing nothing to further the tyranny. He is not fighting against tyranny and he is not fighting for tyranny.
A volunteer who is killing Ukrainians is actively fighting for tyranny.

Also, not all volunteers/mobiks who pick up the gun are "patriots". Every volunteer could have chosen to volunteer to fight in the army of free Russia. They could have chosen to go and protest...with guns. They sure would have better odds of surviving on the streets of Moscow than in Bakhmut.

If you’re a Russian who doesn’t think Russia’s army should be in Ukraine, then your issue is with the Kremlin, not the soldier who got deployed.

And again...no. Kremlin is just a structure...a building. Kremlin doesn't do anything...people do. Volunteers and mobiks that go along with the war are the hand of Kremlin. If 500 000 russians had said no to conscription and simply refused to go to war...what would Kremlin have done? Imprisoning half a million of young working age men, creating an economical disaster not seen in modern times? How would "Kremlin" have imprisoned these men? What if these men actually resisted...even a little bit?

A volunteer soldier sometimes carries out orders to do things that we don’t like. Sometimes that soldier manages to stand up and refuse to do them, but the responsibility for his having been ordered to do them in the first place lies with the citizenry who allows that leadership to stand.

And again...No.
You fail to understand the concept of a volunteer who fights for money.
Everything a volunteer does in the war that he chose to go to is something he chose to do. He could always refuse. Millions of Russians not only didn't volunteer...but they actually left the country, thus avoiding becoming tools for tyranny. Even more are making up all kinds of medical excuses, family reasons etc and avoid conscription that way. Many simply move to another apartment and won't update the address. Some...real patriots, will actually fight back against the tyranny by "smoking carelessly in russian factories" or causing a "whoopsie" on some railroad tracks.

[kellyhound]

Crimean teenage girls were forced to apologize for listening to a Ukrainian song and praise Putin.

[RedactedKaos]

Originally Posted by kellyhound ↗

Crimean teenage girls were forced to apologize for listening to a Ukrainian song and praise Putin.

They are my daughters age and look like her, good God worst post for me yet, thanks for the share

[scoRch]

Originally Posted by RedactedKaos ↗

They are my daughters age and look like her, good God worst post for me yet, thanks for the share

That's the Russian freedom right there

[RedactedKaos]

Originally Posted by scoRch ↗

That's the Russian freedom right there

Yeah that really drilled it home... Can't believe they would hold dumb teenage girls ( I mean that lovingly) liable for anything, you said it though...

[SDI]

Originally Posted by scoRch ↗

That's the Russian freedom right there

I guess now they're fully supporting the Federation and love the big brother Mr. Putin^^

[kellyhound]

A Russian L-39 training aircraft crashed during a training flight during the landing approach in the Kuban region. Reportedly, one of the crew members died. “The plane crashed on the airfield. No damage or casualties on the ground. The cause of the crash is being established,”- Russian Ministry of Defense

[kellyhound]

On June 13 President Vladimir Putin has designated the site of a "nuclear disaster". It is the Kursk nuclear power plant. Putin has given orders to prepare for the implementation of an operation with a provocation of a man-made catastrophe followed by accusations of "sabotage" on the Ukrainian side.

Ukraine have already warned that such plans are being discussed, but now we are talking about Putin's direct order and willingness to act.
================================
Aug 14: "The Russians are preparing a provocation at the Kursk NPP: there is already a plan to evacuate the population".

The local authorities were tasked with creating a transport register. They plan to evacuate from 21 to 57 thousand people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_Nuclear_Power_Plant


Meanwhile Captured Russians ask Ukraine not to exchange them before end of service contract

According to the newspaper, some of the prisoners do not want to return to Russia before the end of the war to avoid being sent back to the front line. Some of them even refuse to return to Russia.