[Faust]

Originally Posted by William May ↗

Or any Russian gathering at all. Plenty of pissed off Ukrainians who lost family members who will be hoping to kill plenty of Russians. Probably hoping Putin holds some pep rallies soon.

Yeah hoping for civilian casualties. Something tells me your country has the highest civilian kill count in the past 60 years or so…

Anyway this will only accelerate the development of anti drone weapons

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

That means the surrender of the eastern regions has already be decided upon. Looks like 30.000 soldier lives and some old junk well spent, at least according to Putin

Nothing is "decided upon". I think this just means the US sees the current Ukrainian government as not going away any time soon. Because clearly Russia's military does not threaten Kyiv, Kharkiv or anything major outside of Donbas which was largely DNR/LNR controlled anyway before the invasion. We will see what happens. I'm foreseeing a protracted war of attrition. The longer it lasts, the more likely the aggressor loses. This is reminding me of the American invasion of Vietnam and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We all know how those wars went for the aggressors.

[Faust]

Why not the American invasion of Iraq or the American invasion or Afghanistan?

It could be like that as well

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Anyway this will only accelerate the development of anti drone weapons

Yes. But this also accelerates the development of better drones with better countermeasures. Ukraine has quite literally written the book on effective low budget drone warfare against opponents with tanks. Russia's military is learning this and their leaders will likely incorporate these lessons in the future. The cycle continues and this doesn't favor Russia by any stretch of the imagination considering the amount of fanatical resistance and international aid being sent to the country they invaded.

How the hell does an $800 dollar, mostly Chinese-made drone, carry an old $60 modified Soviet mortar round destroy or severely damage a Russian main battle tank/IFV. It's currently happening and it's partially why Russia is losing. They don't know how to deal with this shit. Most militaries don't.

The Turkish company Baykar, who makes the Bayraktar TB2, is currently designing a heavier more capable drone (Kizilelma) that surpasses the performance of the American Predator B / MQ9 Reaper drone. Whether that actually is the case in testing, is to be seen. So far that Turk company seems to be doing pretty damn well considering 9+ countries were already operating Bayraktar drones before Russia invaded three months ago.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Nothing is "decided upon". I think this just means the US sees the current Ukrainian government as not going away any time soon. Because clearly Russia's military does not threaten Kyiv, Kharkiv or anything major outside of Donbas which was largely DNR/LNR controlled anyway before the invasion. We will see what happens. I'm foreseeing a protracted war of attrition. The longer it lasts, the more likely the aggressor loses. This is reminding me of the American invasion of Vietnam and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We all know how those wars went for the aggressors.

Idk, I see it this way - NATO ASAP need to supply weapons and ammunition enough to equip 1 million people army. Ukrainians say they can and want to mobilize such force and I think would have done it already if it wasn’t for lack of ammunition and weapons, also need to provide food, diesel and so on for such a big active army. EU needs to do it quick before their own citizens didn’t come outside to burn everything down and start overthrowing their governments because they are freezing, starving or cannot afford to pay the bills. Because in the end you can feel sorry for another nation, but once shut hits the fan, you gotta take care of yourself.
Vietnam and Afghanistan are not Ukraine and Russia. Economical ties with EU are very strong and we already seeing how world economy reacts to this conflict. From what i see so far, long continuous war is actually benefiting Russia and Mid East oil empires. Like I said before, financial times stated that Russian surplus is gonna be about 300 billions more compare to the last year and that’s a lot of money. Annual budget of such a big country like Ukraine was about what 200 billions? Ukrainians could stop working for the whole year as nation and spend another 100 billions for hookers, whisky and cigars. If Ukraine with the help of NATO will not do substantial damage to The Russian Armies over the summer and Russians will continue to chase and destroy western weapon depots in Ukraine, oil depots and so on, then winter is going to hit hard and EU will not be ready for this. Even if US taxpayers will pay this 40 billions that’s on hold and another 40 for EU to not pussy out and stand the ground. Either war will end on Putins terms or conflict will continue and Russia will keep making money.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Yes. But this also accelerates the development of better drones with better countermeasures. Ukraine has quite literally written the book on effective low budget drone warfare against opponents with tanks. Russia's military is learning this and their leaders will likely incorporate these lessons in the future. The cycle continues and this doesn't favor Russia by any stretch of the imagination considering the amount of fanatical resistance and international aid being sent to the country they invaded.

How the hell does an $800 dollar, mostly Chinese-made drone, carry an old $60 modified Soviet mortar round destroy or severely damage a Russian main battle tank/IFV. It's currently happening and it's partially why Russia is losing. They don't know how to deal with this shit. Most militaries don't.

The Turkish company Baykar, who makes the Bayraktar TB2, is currently designing a heavier more capable drone (Kizilelma) that surpasses the performance of the American Predator B / MQ9 Reaper drone. Whether that actually is the case in testing, is to be seen. So far that Turk company seems to be doing pretty damn well considering 9+ countries were already operating Bayraktar drones before Russia invaded three months ago.

Actually I found Bayraktars ineffective in this war. That cannot operate anywhere near decent AntiAircraft Defence. This is not Armenia, Russia has a lot of staff that can take them down and doing so easily. I even think this Chinese drones are more effective. Also, not sure if it’s tru but there are rumors that Zelenskiy ordered to stop using them at all or to slowdown, due to heavy losses Turkey might asked them to stop since they have contracts on hands before they got canceled out

[duntez]

Speaking of which, another one

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Yes. But this also accelerates the development of better drones with better countermeasures. Ukraine has quite literally written the book on effective low budget drone warfare against opponents with tanks. Russia's military is learning this and their leaders will likely incorporate these lessons in the future. The cycle continues and this doesn't favor Russia by any stretch of the imagination considering the amount of fanatical resistance and international aid being sent to the country they invaded.

How the hell does an $800 dollar, mostly Chinese-made drone, carry an old $60 modified Soviet mortar round destroy or severely damage a Russian main battle tank/IFV. It's currently happening and it's partially why Russia is losing. They don't know how to deal with this shit. Most militaries don't.

The Turkish company Baykar, who makes the Bayraktar TB2, is currently designing a heavier more capable drone (Kizilelma) that surpasses the performance of the American Predator B / MQ9 Reaper drone. Whether that actually is the case in testing, is to be seen. So far that Turk company seems to be doing pretty damn well considering 9+ countries were already operating Bayraktar drones before Russia invaded three months ago.

For less than 1000 dollar you can destroy ANY usa tank in existence, it has nothing to do with Russian tanks

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Actually I found Bayraktars ineffective in this war. That cannot operate anywhere near decent AntiAircraft Defence. This is not Armenia, Russia has a lot of staff that can take them down and doing so easily. I even think this Chinese drones are more effective. Also, not sure if it’s tru but there are rumors that Zelenskiy ordered to stop using them at all or to slowdown, due to heavy losses Turkey might asked them to stop since they have contracts on hands before they got canceled out

Russia has good air defense inside and near their borders. Inside their country they have a wide net of S-300's and S-400's more interior. At the onset of the war within the Ukraine the Bayraktar absolutely did some significant damage to Russian vehicles. Remember the first 2 weeks of this invasion, tons of Bayraktar footage. And also later at Snake island, they definitely killed quite a few land and naval Russian units. The Bayraktars used to "distract" the Moskva are not confirmed. We only saw a portion of what they did on video. At least three got shot down in Russia over Belgorod however. They got wise after that big oil facility strike.

The little chinese DJi drones (my buddy has a DJi Air 2 drone, it's pretty damn cool) certainly have a great reconnaissance capability. Fantastic range and about 45 mins battery life. The Ukrainians are primarily using them for this and artillery correction but some units modified them to actually drop ordinance, which we've seen here on DR. 30th OMBr comes to mind.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

For less than 1000 dollar you can destroy ANY usa tank in existence, it has nothing to do with Russian tanks

That is true, I didn't just mean non-western tanks. The books of warfare are currently being re-written globally.