[RealityUnfolding]

Originally Posted by flangemanager ↗

Mechanical failure or not, that car must have been going at one hell of a rate. Had it been traveling at the posted speed limit, maybe things would have been different? Regardless though, RIP.

Not necessarily. Some of these cars are giant plastic pieces on wheels. I don't know much about this particular Carrera but much of Porsche's fleet are made to break away in an accident. Lots of high end cars just shatter like dropping a plate on the floor.

What made this accident different was hitting the pole and the tree. From my limited understanding, the Carrera doesn't come with a cage like some of the other speed demon cars either. You might as well be driving a tin car. All the money it's worth is the name and the engine... and just about nothing else. From what I read, the car also has no traction control. IMO, it's a pointless, useless car when it comes to not modifying it on your own. No cage, about 120hp less than a NASCAR, no cage, no stability addons... and the top was off... which weakens the car considerably. I'm sure he was speeding but I'm not convinced it was a high rate yet.

This is from the 2003 model of a review back then but also gives some clue on how the fire happened.

"The GT's crankshaft spins just 3.9 inches above its carbon-fiber floor. This is made possible by the engine's dry-sump oiling system and that small-diameter clutch. The six-speed transmission actually sits lower in the car than the differential.

Only a fool, or a select few automotive writers, would explore the handling limits of this thing on public roads"

Here is a video with photos of crashes of varying Porsches. I'm sure a few were speeding but it's clear to see how easy it is to just shatter these car, even with static tops.

http ://youtu .be/GRYrI3p3sSw

[Lebowski]

I think it's less about the damage to the car and more about the physics of the crash. You would need a tremendous amount of inertia to run the car through that pole and then still continue for 15 feet or so to the trees, especially on what was essentially the inside of a turn. If they were going 45, the pole would have likely stopped them.

[Flaka]

.

[RealityUnfolding]

Originally Posted by Lebowski ↗

I think it's less about the damage to the car and more about the physics of the crash. You would need a tremendous amount of inertia to run the car through that pole and then still continue for 15 feet or so to the trees, especially on what was essentially the inside of a turn. If they were going 45, the pole would have likely stopped them.

That's the point of the car damage though. If it shreds like the pole was a can opener, the car breaks away, spins and then hits the tree and since it didn't take out the tree which was barely above a sapling, the tree wasn't hit that hard and it left the crucial fluids far too open to even the slightest bump. The pole took the brunt. The pole gave way too and it appears there was no concrete bottom to it (which is odd to me, as everywhere in the US on city streets, there is always a concrete piece, even on simple speed limit signs). The car itself was burst open, not split in two. I'd wager you could do this kind of damage to the car as low as 55mph based on some of the crash tests of other model years (I can't find one for the 2005). Still speeding but certainly not the 80+ some people surmise or excessive speeding. They weren't drifting either - it leaves tire marks and the ones on the scene are straight, not staggered or twisted. I think people just assume they were doing what he does in movies.

[RealityUnfolding]

TMZ just posted -

Paul Walker wasn't the first to allegedly experience mechanical issues inside a Porsche Carrera GT -- TMZ has learned, the car company was sued over a deadly 2005 crash involving the same vehicle ... and it paid dearly in a massive settlement.

According to the lawsuit, two men (a driver and his passenger) were killed on a California race track while driving a 2005 Carrera GT ... hitting a wall at over 100 MPH while trying to avoid another car on the track.

The family of the passenger sued practically everyone involved in the accident for gross negligence -- and won $4.5 million in a giant settlement ... $350,000 of which was paid by Porsche.

The lawsuit alleged the GT didn't handle correctly on the track -- and according to the attorney for the victim's family, Craig McClellan ... sworn testimony from several Porsche experts confirmed a major design flaw with the GT is it doesn't have a Porsche Stability Management system.

We're told the PSMS uses a computer to correct the car if the rear end loses control -- and it is now required by law.

For Porsche's part, the company denied liability -- saying the car fully met federal safety standards at the time -- but it still paid its portion of the settlement to avoid further litigation.

It's unclear if Roger Rodas' Carrera GT had been fitted with a PSMS -- but McClellan says ZERO 2005 Carrera GTs (like Roger's) came off the assembly line with the system.

[flangemanager]

@ RealityUnfolding

I understand what you are saying, in fact a few years ago I crashed a fibre glass and carbon bodied sports car at 40mph and the damage that resulted was devastating.
The GT in this case had been track used in the past and was, from what I gather, fitted with an enclosed safe fuel cell. Although offering a decreased liklehood of fuel loss resulting from impact damage, they are not infallible and can become ruptured following a direct high speed impact. The fact that the car exploded leads me to believe that the speed they were travelling was at least 50mph over the assigned limit.

[okidoll]

From CNN. Cause of death. http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/us/wal...paulwalker145p

"(CNN) -- Autopsies on Paul Walker and Roger Rodas have corroborated what many people believed: Rodas was the driver in the crash; Walker was the passenger.

Walker died of the "combined effects of traumatic and thermal injuries," the Los Angeles county coroner's office said Wednesday. The determination means the impact and the resulting heat and fire caused his death.

Rodas died of "multiple traumatic injuries," the coroner's report said.

The crash was an accident, the coroner's office said, and toxicology results could take six to eight weeks.

The autopsies were completed Tuesday, but investigators had placed a "security hold" on the results. The coroner's office did not give a reason for the secrecy.

Production of Walker's latest movie will be shut down "for a period of time," the studio said Wednesday."

[Oswald2001]

Suicide by Porsche.

He knew full well what driving like a maniac would eventually cause.

Passenger or not.

[pbaj12]

Originally Posted by flangemanager ↗

@ RealityUnfolding

I understand what you are saying, in fact a few years ago I crashed a fibre glass and carbon bodied sports car at 40mph and the damage that resulted was devastating.
The GT in this case had been track used in the past and was, from what I gather, fitted with an enclosed safe fuel cell. Although offering a decreased liklehood of fuel loss resulting from impact damage, they are not infallible and can become ruptured following a direct high speed impact. The fact that the car exploded leads me to believe that the speed they were travelling was at least 50mph over the assigned limit.

The car didn't explode for about a minute after impact.

[RealityUnfolding]

So in short, Rodas was the only one killed by the impact (I would say having your legs ripped off is probably the killer). Walker was alive when the car caught fire - conscious we don't know, but alive. Without the fire, he might have lived with some injuries or loss of a limb. I gather given his body placement, he wasn't conscious or he might have been able to at least attempt to move at all. To me, this solidifies the "red" body I drew earlier was Walker's. It was (aside from the possible arm) pretty much intact and the most severely burned.